Anyway god. So so then I finally go to somebody else who, you know, she's like, I could see it. Like, I she didn't have the ultrasound going for, like, not even a minute. She's like, well, there's a problem. It's rubbing against your fallopian tube. And, so she took it out and put another one in, and I've never had any issues. And then it's funny because I've also I've never had a hot flash. I've been asked like, oh, like, I've had because I'm, you know, I'm a hairstylist. Right? So I've had clients that have said, like, oh, what do you do when you have a hot flash? And I'm like, I'm sorry. I haven't had like, I almost feel like I have to apologize all the time. Like, I'm sorry. But but I do I definitely have like other things. And, you know, I was thinking about it today when I was listening to your podcast earlier. And I don't know if you guys do this already. So pardon me if you do, but I thought on your blog, it'd be great if you had, just like a checklist. Because there's so many I'm sure you guys you guys must know more than I do for sure. But there's so many symptoms out there. And then how do you feel through what's a normal symptom and what is not?

Well, we do have a checklist. We'll send you some info that Okay.

You're like, I'm the Xavier with that already.

We got it. We got you. But I think what's important too is it's it's a real it's a balancing act, all of this, because, yes, there are a myriad of symptoms that can be caused by the what what's really going on in perimenopause is the fluctuation, which is in large part responsible for a lot of these symptoms and the chaos. However, it's also important not to just dismiss everything as perimenopause. Right? So, you know, maybe you're having heart palpitations, which is a legitimate perimenopausal symptom, but just because we're saying it or Oprah's saying it, go and see your doctor and get that checked. But, yes, all we do have, a checklist because that's the other thing when you don't know. You know, I think you talk to anybody and you say, okay. Name a symptom. Right? They would say hot flashes and night sweats, irregular periods. After that, you know, there were a lot of things that happened to me and that happened to Michelle that neither of us had any clue.

Did you guys have similar symptoms?

Some were similar and some were no different. Like, everyone's path is so different. Right? Like, I had a lot of rage. Like, for me, it was a lot of emotional symptoms. I also had, you know, the overnight weight gain when I changed nothing else. You know? Now I know that there's more much more to that. But, yeah, I feel like for me, my biggest most foul symptom was the rage, and I don't know that Mikel had that. I still have it. My gosh.

I don't have broken appliances in

my Yeah.

I do.

Sorry, Michelle. You broke an appliance?

Like, I slam doors a lot. And so, like, the fridge door, the the the like, the dryer, like yeah. I there's broken things that are being held together with duct tape.

So, basically, you're just kind of regressing to your teenage self.

Yeah. Well, no. Not even teenage. Like, I'm talking, like, three year old. I'm back there, but I'm stronger. And yet I can't pull myself back in. Like, while it's happening, Andrea, yeah, I'm raging and I'm like, stop. Like, settle down, lady. You're like, this is not this is not a valid response to what's going on, and yet I can't rein it in. Like, there's no it's it's bizarre. It's crazy.

So so what's recommended? Like, did you, did you talk to your menopause doctor or, like, a therapist or somebody about it? Like, what do they recommend that you do with that?

For well, for me, like, I've gone through a lot of different things. It's funny. My husband was just on a fishing trip, and he came back and he's like, oh, Ted and I were talking about menopause. And I was like, oh my god. And he's like and I was telling him how since you've been on HT, how you're so much more level again, and you're just kinda calm, and you're, like, you don't have these wild mood changes. So I feel like that was a big for me, that was a, a great, solution to support me.

And I think that's the biggest thing for your listeners. I think if we can share, like, rage, irritability, anxiety, depression. Women in perimenopause are very susceptible to this. And that what's really scary is if someone had a mental health challenge previously and they were they were successful in managing and treating, maybe they were on medication, it can come back and it can come back with a vengeance. And even women who have never had any kind of challenge in that realm, it can show up. And it is weird. It is out of nowhere. It is hard to explain. And what's terrifying about this is often the things that normally would work for depression or anxiety often don't work.

Yeah. We both had the depression thing, and neither of us are that kind of person. Like, we're generally pretty upbeat and, you know, sunny side of the street, and it just it just rocks you and you again, it's really confusing.

With was it a slow build or was it like like a sudden overnight?

I feel like it's just I feel like that's the biggest miss like, that's the big misconception or difficulty with perimenopause is it kinda just like slowly build. It sneaks in. There's a little bit here, a little bit there, and be like and then and then it's gone. And then your hormones have leveled out again and, like or, you know, your your estrogen has peaked again or whatever it is, and you feel normal. So then you're like, oh, no. That was just a blip. And and sometimes I mean, those are the core like sleep, stress, nutrition, movement, like those are really important. They're kind of the pillars for our health. Right? Like so, you could be on HTN if you're not man if you're not trying to manage your sleep and if you're not eating healthy and you're eating McDonald's and and packaged food every day, like

Sorry. Were you just lagging my McDonald's in there?

No. That was that was mother's day slash birthday breakfast. I mean, I had mimosas yesterday morning, so, like, no judgment here, babe. Frozen mimosa. I I you gotta try it. So good.

I'll do the recipe. Yeah. Yeah.

So no. No. No judgment. But I'm just like, if you don't have those pillars set up properly, if you're not working on, you know, just your basic health stuff, then HT isn't gonna help. Like, nothing's gonna help.

No. And it it's valid. It's a combination of things. But I think the challenge is as well, a lot of us are going to our doctors and getting dismissed and not getting that. Right? And if you look at that's the other complicated piece. Right? We don't have enough research. It's getting better. There's a lot of nuance to the care that is required in this phase of life.

I I find too that that it's also there's there's so so many experts out there so many, like in social media, we have so many influencers, which I personally for my industry, I find to be a pain in the ass because they don't really know what they're talking about. I could just imagine even like in in your sphere of like, like, being, you know, having the perimenopause, podcast and just, you know, you guys are sourcing out, like, experts and getting getting the right information, but there's influences that are just jumping up.

Andrea and all of your listeners, do not take your medical advice from TikTok. Like, it's great. Meno talk is great to get awareness, to build awareness. We need to be having these conversations, and people need to be more aware because for a lot of people, it starts in their thirties, and people aren't aware of that. Right? So it it they they're blindsided by it. They're confused, and they don't need to be. But it's not like, a thirty second video is not gonna give you the medical support you need to get through any of this stuff.

I I find so like, it it's so overwhelming. Like, all the information that you see, that kind of and like you say, like, metal washing is such a great word too because you even get it in, like, the the beauty industry, you know, just like, you know, it's talking about what it's going to fix aesthetically, and it's and that they're just using it as, like, a target market to sell. So it was kinda like, how do you how do you filter through all that? Like, what's what's real and what is just them trying to sell to you? Right? And I guess, like, I I follow doctor Jen Gunter. I don't know if you guys do as well. But I Mhmm. I love I love a lot of her advice that she gives and and also just by saying, like, don't follow this person because all they're doing is selling you, like, bottles of pills and, you know, it's

Yep.

Absolutely. And she does some great work, and we have a coming newsletter coming up shortly that that includes her one of her resources in terms of how do you figure out what's what. There's some basic tenants you can just keep in mind every time you you know, is this person trying to sell me something? Is it something that they've created that they're trying to sell? Right? Follow the money. Where where is that? What are their credentials? What do they and and really, the bottom line is if it sounds too good to be true, it absolutely is. There is no one thing there is no one thing, including menopausal hormone therapy, that is going to be the magic bullet. Everybody in this phase of life requires a toolkit Yeah. And needs to understand what is out there and what might be a good solution for them. And that's really at the end of the what we're trying to do is to arm people with the information they need for their unique journey. And we also fundamentally believe that we are woefully behind in terms of women's health research money, appropriate care, all of those things. And if we can get as many of us as possible, advocating for better with sound information and sound resources, we will be a lot harder to ignore.

For sure. There's an article, last updated May tenth. So why doctors and researchers say Canada needs to change course of women's health studies. It just talks about, like, the research and, women's chronic pain and just, how we've kind of been kind of brushed aside and maybe not necessarily part of, like, focus groups or or trials.

Well, women weren't actually included in clinical trial. It was actually the the National Institute of Health in the US actually mandated in nineteen ninety three that women should be part of clinical trials.

And even, like, medicine, like, the the dosing for medicine is based on these trials with men. Like, we're not little men. So it it they don't fully understand. I I'm I'm maybe I'm making a big sweeping statement here, but, yeah, it needs to change. We need to be part of this research because we need to to know better how this impacts us, how everything impacts us.

Yeah. And and we're also different too. Right?

Well, and that and, again, that's kinda what we're trying to do here is give women all this information and the tools and the team and the understanding of what's going on so that they can go and advocate for themselves because no one is coming to save you. No one is going to hold your hand through perimenopause. We're really and whether or not it's because our health care system is broken is a whole other thing, but no one's helping us. And so we are trying to give women the information so they can go to their doctors and know how to speak to their doctors and know how to ask for what it is they need. We really do need to become our own health advocates.

It's true. I don't know how you guys feel about male doctors, but I kind of like just from my own personal experience, I no longer wanna see any male doctors. So unless I absolutely have to, but, and one of my, like, my more recent experiences so just, I guess, before Christmas time. So I have high blood pressure, and I don't know I don't know why. Okay. Aside from that, I had McDonald's. I got one time in the shell.

I totally it was just front of mind.

Oh my god. I know. I know. I'm just I'm just kidding. So I see a doctor. My blood pressure is still high. They wanna put me on blood pressure medication. I say, sure. Fine. They wanna send me to a hypertension specialist. I say to my GP, I only wanna see female doctors. And, but I have been doing some reading that high blood pressure could be part of perimenopause menopause. Right? So I get to this hypertension specialist, and it turns out to be a man. So I was a bit surprised because I specifically said I wanted to see a female doctor. But I'm kinda like, I'm not gonna, like, walk out the door. Right? So so I said it was not a great experience at all. He was condescending. He was a complete asshole.

When

we were talking about it, we wanted to add on two more medications. And I said I said, well, I don't really wanna be on three medications. I'd like to understand why do I have high blood pressure. And then I said, I've been reading, like, doing some research and reading doctor Jen Gunter's book. And I said, it seems like that could also be something to do with, like, perimenopause, menopause. So is is my high blood pressure possibly because of that? And he so he's a hypertension specialist, says to me, well, I know nothing about menopause in women, but I can tell you that if you don't go on these medications, you're gonna have heart attack or stroke within ten years. That was my experience.

Wow. That's I'm sorry that that happens.

And, you know, even we had a a fabulous doctor on our, podcast. It's coming out shortly. And she was saying that even within the medical field, there's cardiologist there that don't believe in Mikael, do you remember this conversation where she said, like, I might say, yeah, you should use HT and then they go to the cardiologist and they're like, oh, no. No. No. You're not a candidate for that and you shouldn't be using that. And there's a lot of contradictory information. I think there's just they don't know. Right? It's not actually their fault. They haven't been taught it in school. You know? So to get the menopause information, they have to sign up to the Menopause Foundation. They have to sign up to the Diabetes Foundation. They have to sign up to the you know? Like, it's not like it's I'm not making excuses for them, but I also fuck. It's a lot.

It's a big concerted effort for a medical provider to learn what they need to about perimenopause, menopause. And it's to your point, Michelle, it's still not part of the curriculum in medical school for any practitioner, even OB GYNs. And it's it's hard. It's hard to find a doctor, period. Hard to get into a specialist. And so to find someone who actually also has the ability to to incorporate, you know, this whole menopause piece into their practice is challenging.

And then I go back to our health care system is broken, and I think, like, this is a big your example. Like, they want to put you in a box and they wanna put you on a pill, and that's what they know how to do. Like, there's no preventative health care in Canada is not not there yet.

Well, and I I even said to him, I said I said, like, I'm not I'm like, I'm all for the science. You know? I've had eight COVID vaccines.

Give me more.

You know? Like like, hook me up. Whatever science is out there, I'll I'll take it. So, like, if I need to take the medication, I'm I'm definitely not against it, but I want I would like to understand a bit more why. Absolutely. So I ended up so I posted about I have a Facebook page. So I ranted about it on my Facebook page. And one of my old clients from Singapore who's based in Australia, she sent me a link to the Menopause Society of Canada. Very sweet of her to do that. And she said, you should look for a menopause doctor and talk to them. So I found somebody on that list, and I've been seeing her. Yeah. It's great. But she had said to me so just for people that might be listening and maybe kind of relate to my story, she was saying that, yes, you can get high blood pressure that can be part of perimenopause menopause. And, yes, once you're kind of through to the other side, your blood pressure can regulate, But it can take it's not always it's not always the case, though. She wanted to stress that. But she said, going through menopause or perimenopause to menopause can take ten years. Right? So she said, you don't want to not be on the medication because if you have high blood pressure, that can, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know understand all the terminology. But I guess it can it can affect all of your like, it can affect your your heart. It can affect your arteries, whatever.

It's not good for you.

It's not good for you. Thank you. Just summarize. It's not good

for you.

So so she said, stay on the medication. And then once you get, through to menopause, then they can, I guess, do more tests and see? And then it's possible you end up going off of the medication. But she said in that meantime, you don't wanna have all that stress on your body because, like Kel said, it's not good

for you. It's bad.

It's a thing. It's bad.

Oh, that's good. Sounds like you've got some good health though.

Yeah. You know what? I have to say that, like, I never I honestly never thought about getting a menopause specialist, and it makes all the sense in the world, actually.

Absolutely. And and there's so many great practitioners on that list. It's great. And and such a great tool. We'll have to link to that in the show notes.

Yeah. Great. Is there any, is there any kind of common denominator that you guys have found that everybody should kind of consider? I mean, I know, like, sleep seems to be something for an example. But is there anything else, like, for women that may be symptomatic or not?

Yeah. So what I think what everybody needs to understand whether or not you have symptoms is that your risk for disease increases as you approach menopause and once you hit menopause. So your cardiovascular risk for cardiovascular disease increases, your risk for dementia increases, your risk of osteoporosis. Right? And and so there are all of these things that, become pretty significant. And so it's not just about mitigating symptoms. It's about protecting your health and increasing your, your health span. Right? We do live longer as women, but we often live those years in very poor health relative to men so far. So we all need to work to change that. And as Michelle said earlier, there were some key pillars. So sleep and Jesus Christ. When I was forty two, and that was my first symptom, and it was awful. Awful. Awful. Awful. I was waking up at two in the morning, could not and like I'd been plugged into an electrical socket. There was nothing going on, and I wasn't sleeping. And I was losing my mind, and no one could help me. And if I'd even just known that my hormones were responsible, that would have been a game changer because I, of course, blame myself, thought I just couldn't handle the stress of the life that I had built. So sleep is a big pillar. That's a big piece of it. You need to fuel your body, to feel good and to feel better and to promote your health. Right? Let's let's think of strong, not skinny. Stop this depriving yourself. Movement, you've got to exercise. That doesn't mean you've got to be a rock star in the gym every day. It means you've got to be walking. It does mean you need to incorporate some strength training, into your regular routine, and you've gotta start building those happy healthy habits and and managing your stress. Right? So there's a lot of there's a lot of work that needs to be done, right, emotionally as well in order for us to thrive in this next phase, which, frankly, so far, the best phase.

Well, I I feel like, like, with our age and, you know, I feel like talking to other people that, you know, like, you know, older than than I am, they do talk about which is, like, perfect for my title of my podcast. Like, it's kinda like like, fuck you. Like, it's like the fuck you fifties. It's like we're, like, we're just owning it and doing our thing. And maybe being gen xers, it's also kind of pushing it because I don't think we put up with shit when we were younger, and so we're not gonna put up with shit now either. So it's nice that we're in that, you know, we're paving the way for future generations to, like, stop putting up shit, hopefully.

I love it. That's what I love about this podcast that you've got. Like, it's so it's so empowering. All the women you've had on, all of your guests have been, I don't know. Just I feel I I every time I listen, I walk away feeling a little bit more powerful. It's Oh, thank you. Awesome. Yeah.

It's great. Thank you. Do you guys have any like, for your podcast, do you have any anybody that you're hoping to get on or future guests that you've already recorded with that you're excited about?

Ryan Reynolds. Sorry. That's a joke.

On? Or

There's a little joke here. We want him to do be in a a social media campaign for us. Every time someone asks a question like that, I'm like, hey. Putting it out there into the universe. Ryan Ryan one day. I I we've I think one of the topics we haven't really covered yet, we've got, but we're going to very soon. We've got a sex sexpert a sex expert Yeah. Coming on, because there's a lot you know, it's not just, like, the GSM symptoms that make sex painful and uncomfortable. It's it's also low libido. Like, there's so many there's layers of psychological stuff going on, and so I think that's gonna be a really fun conversation that we haven't had yet. Yeah. And there and I think every year, and, Mikkel, I I I won't drop any names, but I feel like we're we're just about to finish season two. And so I feel like we're gaining the following and the confidence to go after some bigger name people. So I think that, there's gonna be a lot more exciting guests on season three.

Amazing. How how do you guys determine your seasons?

We started in September, and we go for a year.

We drop every two weeks year round.

And and we still have a newsletter every week and, you know, we're still doing there'll still be stuff like that happening where social media, all of those great things will still be going on a regular. It's just that we don't have that, you know, trying to get people's attention in the summer is busy and so just getting ahead and not having to to worry about that. And then I think probably usually around the end of August, mid August, we start recording again for season, just to give Amy a little bit of time so she's not in a mad scramble.

That's That's good. I haven't actually thought about Amy, so sorry, Amy.

Fuck you, Amy. I love the name of your podcast. I love that

I can drop the f from

all the time. It's my favorite word in the world.

I also my other favorite word is a c word, but I guess, you know, people in North America don't love that word so much. Oh.

But

That's a big one. Although we do close most of our, newsletters with see you next Tuesday or see you next Thursday, kinda like Rick but, Rick Mercer used to do, but we spell it out c u. So only, you know, only the Canadians that used to to watch his rants get to know what that means.

So so speaking about, like, like like social media and, like, like, your your newsletter and everything, so where can where can everybody find you? Because I don't even think we've actually mentioned the name of your podcast. So go. What's the name of your podcast?

Oh, it's called This is Perimenopause, and you can find us on all the streaming services. So wherever you get your your favorites, you can find us. We also have a, a page on our website with all of our podcasts. If you wanna go there and check it out, you can sign up for our newsletter on our website. And, the website is this is perimenopause dot com. And, social media, you can also find us there. Instagram and Facebook, same handle, this is perimenopause.

Excellent. And then what happens when you're, onto menopause? Are you going to kind of, go to this is menopause?

I don't know. I'm fifty days away today is fifty days. So July first, Canada Day will also be menopause day for me.

So those fireworks are actually potentially for Michelle.

All for me, Andrea. You can think of me that day.

Excellent. I wonder just for myself because I feel like I've only heard the term perimenopause, like, more recently, like, over the past couple years. I don't feel like I've heard the term before, but the term must have existed.

It only actually, I think, came into our nomenclature in nineteen ninety six. It's relatively new. And it's not it's really it's not well understood. Right? And it is now it used to be you know, people would say, oh, it's a couple of years before menopause, and now it can be ten years. And I would argue it probably is for a lot of people. It's just that you didn't realize what was happening at the outset. Right?

How do you think that other women can I mean, aside from, you know, your voice and what you guys are doing, just like your friend group or whatever, how do you feel that other women can help support each other while they're going through this transition of life?

I think the best thing we can do, is be open about what we're going through. Right? And I think we have a tendency to to suck it up with everybody or to not, you know, maybe share

I don't know

about you and Michelle, but, you know, actually being open and honest about especially the mental health symptoms in particular. I think everything is when it comes to our health, we is stigmatized. Right? But being open and honest about what you're feeling, I think, is huge. Not just for your own benefit, but it invites somebody else to come in

and say, oh, yeah. You me too. Well, especially with social media, everything's so rosy and the, you know, picture perfect and, oh my god, isn't this great? Like, no. My fucking life sucks a lot of time and there's a lot of really hard days and there's a like, let's just be honest with each other and stop, filtering our lives. And, yeah, I think those conversations I think being open is a great step, Michal. Good answer.

Yeah.

Again, like I we said earlier, no one's coming to save you. You need to do this for yourself and get educated and take some time to invest in yourself and go to your menopause society of whatever country you're in and find practitioner that can help you.

Yeah. That's a good point too. Definitely. Well, this has been such a, like, fantastic conversation. I feel like we could kinda keep talking forever. Is there any anything else that you guys want to kind of, like, leave listeners with?

So what I would say is the one thing I want everyone to know is you're not alone and you're not crazy, and perimenopause can be a really challenging time. It can be a breeze, but it can be really challenging, and you're not crazy. And so talk to your friends, talk to a practitioner, find some help, because really, this can be a really exciting stage as

well. That's great. Michelle?

What she said? Ditto.

We always say at the end of our or part of our podcast, we say, we used to think menopause signaled the end, but, really, it's just the beginning.

It's true.

Beginning of our next chapter.

Yes. Amazing. And your next chapter is in fifty days.

Fifty fucking days.

What happens at day forty nine?

If I get a bleed on day forty nine oh my god. No. You will you will know because you will hear a big scream echoing across the land.

Have to cancel your fireworks.

Can you imagine? Oh my goodness. I'm sure it happens.

But you know what's so funny? I know I was, like, wrapping this up, and then I keep talking, but, you know, whatever. The the one thing that I've noticed so lately, just to, you know, overshare, is that being on the Mirena, my period has gotten a lot lighter the past few months. So that's been a change. But then I also noticed my skin. Like, I haven't had Botox in over a year, and I kind of felt like getting Botox. I felt like I was starting to make they get made me look older. But then lately, I feel that maybe the collagen has dropped a lot more. Like, I noticed I noticed that I have more wrinkles. I'm getting more of, like, the, you know, the jowls.

Oh, we know that.

I I do this a lot with my husband. I hold I hold my face up like this, and I say, then this looks better. Right? And he always tells me to shut the fuck up.

We hate the Scotch thing. Well, you're gorgeous as it is. Can we please do an episode of our hot tips with with you about something to do with collagen or something? But can we both have our face like, all of us have our faces taped with Scotch tape.

Yes. Well, there but there is face tape.

Oh, no. I don't even know about this.

Yeah. So for this so there's a few different things. Like, there's Hollywood tricks where you kind of do, like, braids just back here a little bit on either side. Oh, look at that. It's it's like when when like, so recently, because Anne Hathaway was, she was at an award show or something. Yeah. Right. She's at an award show, and then people were saying what surgery she had done. And so many hair and makeup artists that I know were commenting saying she just has a snatched ponytail. Because that's the other thing too. If you're going out somewhere and you're just feeling like like you just do a tighter ponytail

Shut up. Thank you.

Now I'm gonna have to grow my hair.

Oh, hell.

But there is a base tape as well. So then, and then you just put it here, and then it has, like, an elastic band that goes underneath your hair, connects to the other side.

Oh my god. We totally have to do something with this cause that would be so much fun. Okay. For sure. Done. Done.

Anyway, so that's a good note to leave on, just how we can tape and snatch our faces.

I love it.

I know it's supposed to be a positive, like, you know, positive aging conversation.

We can have a little fun with it too. I think it's hysterical. We're not saying we need it.

Yes. Exactly. Well, that's the thing too. Like, sometimes it's like you it's not like an does this necessarily need to be, like, a or society pressure? Sometimes it's just things we wanna do. Right? So that's the thing. Like, I always say, like, do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah. Who who cares? It's up to what you want. What makes you happy?

I love that.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Thanks for having us.

Mikael, feel better.

I feel much better after this.

So much fun.

Yeah. So much fun. Definitely. Thanks for tuning in to the fuck you fifties. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow and rate the podcast. And we'd love to connect with you on Instagram, so be sure to follow us at the fuck you fifties. The fuck you fifties is hosted by Andrea Clare and edited and produced by Bespoke Productions Hub. See you next time.