The Only Way Out Is Through with Entrepreneur and CEO Jennifer Appleby Vines
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Transcript
In this conversation, Andrea and Jennifer explore the transformative power of dance, the importance of leadership and company culture, and the challenges and triumphs of women in leadership roles. They discuss Jennifer's journey into dance later in life, her approach to leading her company, Georgette Packaging, and the significance of mentorship and support among women in the workplace. The dialogue emphasizes the joy of self-discovery, the value of collaboration, and the belief that it's never too late to pursue one's passions. In this engaging conversation, Jennifer and Andrea explore themes of career changes, the importance of leadership, and the journey of pursuing artistic passions. They discuss the challenges of ageism in the workplace, the influence of strong female role models, and the significance of authenticity in social media. The dialogue emphasizes resilience, personal growth, and the importance of being open to new opportunities.
Connect with Jennifer
Links & Resources
The Body Myth Adult Women and the Pressure to Be Perfect by Margo Maine and Joe Kelly
Body Image, Aging, and Identity in Women Over 50: The Gender and Body Image (GABI) Study
Connect with The F*CK You 50s
Speaker 0
Women of all ages suffer from body dissatisfaction. Please be forewarned this rant might be a little triggering. We are a product of influence, family, socializing, advertising, fashion, and social media. Influence is the capacity to affect character, development, or behavior, and maybe that's why the concept of the influencer drives me fucking batty. There are so many layers as to why I feel that the influencer market is such a racket, a racket of insincerity and capitalism. I've had multiple targeted ads hit my algorithm selling the get rid of unwanted menopausal body fat. I've had personal trainers, male, slide into my DMs on various platforms, pitching programs for the older woman. I'm sorry, but what the fuck do you know about women in their fifties? I'm so fucking nothing. It's exhausting seeing so many influencers and brands targeting menopause with misinformation paired with treating us like we are a medical problem that they are empowered to save. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Social media is media. It's selling. It's selling you aspects of life that they hope that you will want to buy into. We are about to enter the season of how to get a bikini body, which is such an archaic, unhealthy media rhetoric. We see these fashion headlines and feel compelled to try and live up to this misogynistic standard. And when we can't, we tend to drop self deprecating humor or self criticism as to why we can't emulate this body myth. When you draw attention to your body, unfortunately, some take it as you just gave them permission to add to the conversation. Non consensual conversations about each other's bodies is completely inappropriate. I was on set last year working on an all female set for a female empowering project. It was a fantastic project until one of the women, out of the blue, shoved her hand into my dress, grabbing my breast, laughing while making remarks about my body. I did nothing. I said nothing. I still reflect on that day, imagining handling it differently. Did she think it was okay because we were all women? What compelled her to touch me? Was I giving off that, in her head, like, somehow I gave her fucking permission to touch me? Yes. I I see that it's fucked up, and, yes, she assaulted me. I told my husband, my kids, and a couple of clients, and now you. I don't love my aging body. I am trying. As a hairstylist with a private studio, I have had many women in my chair over the years talk about their bodies and how they're unhappy about them. I honestly don't think I've ever had a woman in my chair who has brought up that conversation in a positive manner. And I've had tons of stunning women of all shapes, sizes, and ages in my chair. It's really unfortunate that that is our takeaway on ourselves year after year. Having worked in an industry enveloped in appearance, there is this misconception that models and celebrities look the way they do because they won the genetic lottery. And while there is an inkling of truth to that, it doesn't happen without the work. I know many who are in the public eye where part of their daily schedule is going to the gym. There is a waterfall effect dumping on us hard, and it's really easy to feel like you're drowning while you're trying to keep your head above that water. This is where social media can actually do good, exposing industries where models and celebrities are sharing what they've had to go through to look that way. So we realize it's not just winning the genetic lottery. More and more are also sharing using Ozempic as they feel the pressures from studios, networks, and agents to maintain a certain silhouette in order to get or maintain jobs. On one hand, I applaud some of these people who acknowledge that this is what they're doing as it makes them more real to us. Although now permission seems to be granted for advertisers to target more women seeking that unattainable beauty grail. I was brought up with a lot of female empowerment around me, but I can say the downfall has been the body image influence. And I don't even blame the women in my family because that misogynistic mindset is so subtly in the background that we don't even realize it. During our time living in Singapore, we didn't come home every Christmas. But during one of the odd Christmases home, I remember sitting in my mother's living room with my aunts, female cousins, and whoever else was there where they were doing their usual clothing swap. I don't know if the conversation had changed over the years, or maybe my absence gave me an opportunity to step back and hear it for the first time. But things being said were, oh, I don't wear this dress anymore because I just don't have the narrow hips like I used to, As they toss it to another family member for them to consider. Or I think this would look so much better on you because you have bigger boobs than I have. And other body conversations with the best intentions, of course, but appear negative when you see it from a fresh lens. And, you know, regardless of who it is, when somebody makes a comment about your body, it's implying that there's been a judgment made. Anyway, I got up. I said nothing, and I just left the room. Like, how do we end this cycle? We need to see more embracing versus shaming, and it's that kind of, like, micro shaming. You know? I think what I want to leave you with here is to understand that it's okay to get up and leave the room. Welcome to the fuck you fifties. Welcome to the fuck you fifties, the podcast for women who refuse to tolerate the bullshit anymore. This is real talk, real stories, and a long overdue reality check. I'm your host, Andrea Clare, and this podcast is the filter free voice you've been waiting for with a dose of f bombs, the fuck you fifties, unfiltered, unapologetic, and undeniably needed. My guest today is Jennifer Appleby Bynes. She is the CEO of Georgette Packaging who takes the lead in supporting food entrepreneurs. My producer, Amy, pointed me in Jennifer's direction, and I had to have her on even if only for her empowering sweet dance moves that she shares on her unfiltered Instagram. I asked Jennifer, for the women who feel passed over for CEO leadership roles, any advice for them? And does she think that there's an age where it's like, oh, sorry, babe. It's too late. You missed that CEO boat. Jennifer bluntly says, no. Fuck that. She recently turned fifty and found herself reevaluating her approach to life, mostly by saying, fuck it. I'm gonna do what makes me happy. And you know what? We love that here. Go out and do what makes you happy. Like, the the dancing that you're doing, that's, like, that's incredible. Like, I'm I'm watching it. Not only is it, like, so super sexy, but it's also, like I I envision myself falling over, like, just not being able to do it. When I was living in Singapore, a friend of mine asked me to go to, there was, like, a hip hop dance class, and I was like, like, I'm not a dancer. I'm not a trained dancer. I got kicked out of ballet when I was, like, four years old. But I was, like, cocky. You know? Like, growing up in the eighties and and dancing at clubs and whatever. I'm like, I could do it. No problem. Oh my god. I just I decided to be the class clown because I could not keep up, and I just made jokes. And I think I annoyed everybody, but, anyway, whatever. Speaker 1
Yeah. Though it was my exact same experience in hip hop. I was like, that was the first class I did, and I I'm totally cocky going in because I love going out dancing at clubs. Like, my twenties in the like, was from the the the entire nineties. Right? And all I did was go and dance at clubs, and I'm the last one off the dance floor all the time. So I was like, oh, I could do this. But it's like choreographed hip hop is a whole different thing. And, like, yeah, I didn't grow up. Although I grew up moving my body like that, some similarly on the dance floor, like, so many of the kids now, like, hip hop wasn't a dance class you could take when I was a kid. Right? Like, I took dance class, but it was tap, ballet, and jazz. That was it. And, yeah, like, this having that in movement was it's yeah. It humbles me every time every time still. Speaker 0
And this this one, I was I was looking through your Instagram. So I think there was one that you did with a choreographer that was, like was it slay with miss j or Slay with j or something? Speaker 1
Yeah. Slay with j. Yeah. Jessica sings her name. Yeah. Speaker 0
And then I went on like a like a rabbit hole that I started, like, looking at so many videos, and I'm like, wow. It's so incredible. So when when did you start doing that? When did that become, like, a a I I mean, that's like, a hobby Speaker 1
for you? Like, just before I turned fifty, like, late forties. I just I've been thinking about it for a long time. I've been you know, with my kids growing up, you know, it's hard to get stuff in for yourself that's, like, outside activities. Right? So once the kids were out of the house and I started looking at it, like I said, I went to my first hip hop class with Jessica, and I was like, oh, man. I don't know. And, of course, everybody's twenty. Right? Like, or twenty five or thirty, and I'm like, oh my god. But she was really great and just really inclusive, and so I kept going back. And then I tried this heels, and I was like, she used to do, like, drop ins. Like, you could just pay twenty bucks and go do a drop in and try a try a style. And I was like, well, give it a try. Why not? And actually, it turned out because it's more of an organic kind of a movement. Like, it's just and it's a little more jazzy, you know, pointing your toes and your fingers. Like, that's what I'm used to from, like, dance class as a kid. So, yeah. So I just fell in love with it. Speaker 0
I guess it it kind of it kind of, that that one, the heels almost remind me of, of Chicago, the musical, like, that kind of. Speaker 1
Totally. It's a totally burlesque vibe. Right? And then I've, like, taken cheer classes and yeah. It's just super fun. Yeah. Speaker 0
So how how often do you do that in a week? Speaker 1
So the place where I'm taking now, it's called Underdog Studio in Waterloo. And what they do is they offer little five week sessions where you learn a bit of choreography over five weeks, and it's once a week. So and then they also do drop ins so you can just, you know, like, I've signed up to do a jazz funk class because I haven't done jazz in a while. So, it's usually once a week. I don't do it a whole lot more than that. It's still finding the time to fit it in, but, I honestly, if I could, I would do it all the time. If I didn't have, like, my husband being like, are you ever gonna be home? I'd probably go out and do it every day of the week. Like, I love it. Speaker 0
Well, it looks it looks fun, and you completely look like you're having fun with it as well. I mean, I should see if there's something like that in Toronto. I would love to to take that up. Speaker 1
Oh, there is. Oh, there a hundred percent is. Yep. Absolutely. Because that's I first found places in Toronto, and I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna drive all the way to Toronto. And then I just stumbled across Jessica on Instagram and was like, oh. And then, yeah, just kinda went from there. So, yeah, it's it's very it's very freeing. Like I said, it so ties into the whole, like, fuck it. I'm fifty. I'm gonna do what I wanna do. I don't give a shit what anybody else thinks if it makes me happy. And that's literally, like it just brings me joy, right, to dance. Like, it just always has. And so having that outlet, I'm no longer at clubs. I mean, my girlfriends and I still do that when we get together once a year, but we're always the oldest. Right? But whatever. We don't care. Speaker 0
So were you going to, like, Phil's grandson's place and, I'm trying to make was that club Abstract? And Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. Right? So we they came to visit. My girlfriends are now all over. They're in Halifax and whatever. And so once a year, we get together and do this. They came here last year. Then we stayed at my place. I kicked my husband out, and we went to room forty seven in Uptown Waterloo. And it was pretty good. Like, it's a very mixed crowd. It's the old Starlight. Speaker 0
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell I grew up in Kitchener Waterloo, so I know, like, a little bit. Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Because all the like, when we were together here, we met at Laurier. We went to the Turret. We went to the Twist. Like, those places aren't around anymore. So that was fun. But, honestly, our favorite thing to do is we go to Halifax where my girlfriend lives, and there's a place downtown called Boomers. It's not Boomers as in, like, the generation Boomers. It's just it's like this crappy little dive restaurant. They literally serve, like, Pabst Blue Ribbon and chicken fingers all day long. But then at eight o'clock on Friday and Saturday and Sunday, it turns into a club and all the university students show up, and it's all eighties, nineties, two thousands music. It's crazy. So we went there. The one we treat my friend Tracy was like, you gotta come. It's Halloweekend in Halifax. And so we went on Halloweekend, and and it was awesome. Like, we knew all the songs and the all the and the what we do is we, like, make friends with the girls on the dance floor, you know, and and they're just we're like, oh, you're so cute. And they're like, oh my god. It's so awesome that you're in here. It's so much fun. And then one the one guy turned around in line and was like, what are you guys dressed up as? Because we weren't dressed up. And and, my friend was like, we're fifty year old women. That's what we're dressed up as. You know? Speaker 0
We're dressed up as the real housewives of, you know, whatever. Yeah. Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, that's Speaker 0
great. I mean, I love I love that you have to, like, fly to Halifax to, you know, go to Speaker 1
your house. Whatever it takes. Literally, like, one year, I was just like, oh, I feel like dancing, and I booked a cheap flight from, you know, on flare from here to Halifax for, like, a hundred bucks. And her and I went out and just, like, one yeah. It was awesome. Speaker 0
That's great. Speaker 1
Gotta take it gotta get it where you gotta take it where you can get it. Right? Speaker 0
Exactly. Hundred percent. So I I was, kind of Googling you and doing doing some, you know, recon. And I noticed that you have a fantastic score on Glassdoor, which is, amazing. Right? And those who don't know, Glassdoor is a opportunity for people to go and rate their bosses or their like, where they work, their employment. So Yeah. What do you think has, kind of added to that success? Because that's such a great fantastic rating that you have. Speaker 1
Thank you. Yeah. It's, and and I'm really happy about it because it's certainly a place where people do go look. Right? You know, I was an employee for a very long time in lots of different businesses. I haven't always been an entrepreneur, and I know what it's like to work for different types of managers and different types of leaders. And I sort of like, I'm far from perfect. Nobody is. But I every day, I try and sort of harness that information, right, and be like, what what kind of leader do I wanna be? I'm very collaborative. I always have been, but I think I'm a lot more collaborative than most leaders. Obviously, there's some times where it has to be top down. This is my decision. Too bad, you know, it is what it is because it's my company. But for the most part, I really approach everything as, like, I don't know everything, you know, and I don't always make good decisions. Like, left to my own devices, sometimes I'll make a quick bad decision. And I'd rather talk to people, talk to my team, trust them. You know, if I've hired the right people, trust them to give me their feedback, take so I think that really plays into it. It's, you know, it's definitely a very collaborative atmosphere. There's a lot of really just trying to empower people. Like, my dream scenario is, like I tell this to my team a lot. Like, my dream scenario is, like, a problem comes up, you guys solve it, and then tell me about it later. You know, like, that's that would be amazing, you know, and I know that can happen all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I think that's part of it. We also just, you know, the company was originally founded by another woman, Sarah Lansstreet, who's quite a feminist herself and a really powerful woman leader. I kind of continued the culture in some ways and hopefully improved it, but she also just created a culture where of fun as well and joy. Like, we we have workplace values and one of them is joy, like find the joy in everything. And, you know, we do we do we take time in the middle of the day to go do a scavenger hunt or we, know, we do, like, socials or we do, we we come together for breakfast every two weeks and just, you know, somebody takes we all take turns bringing in breakfast with the group and just literally just sit around and shoot the shit, like water cooler stuff. Right? Which is, I think, really especially more important in this day and age when we're not seeing each other every day and it's hybrid and and all of that to keep those connections. So that's a real big part of it too. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. So a good, like, team team building, team team bonding kind of, atmosphere. Speaker 1
Yeah. Without without overdoing it. Like, it has to be sincere. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. How how big is your company? Speaker 1
We're very small right now. We're only six of us right now, with one being on parental leave. We've had a lot of changes. We have been as big as, I think, thirteen or fourteen at one point a few years ago. Just a lot with ownership changes and different things over the last few years, it varies, and that's fine. But, it's, you know, still still a lot going on, still a lot to manage. You know? It yeah. So but it's good. I like having a tight little team. Speaker 0
And so your and your company is called, Georgette. Right? Georgette Packaging? And then, so so why don't you just kind of, like, share to the audience or listeners? Like, what, what does that entail? Like, packaging, clearly. Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure. We are so Georgia Packaging is a packaging broker, which means we, I like to define it as, like, think about your mortgage broker. Right? You go to them. They go out and do all the work. They get all the quotes. They have all the they know which, suppliers are vetted and good to work with and all of that. They come back to you with the best options based on your timeline, your price point, all of that. So that's what we do, which really is a huge advantage because it allows people a one source of contact to order, you know, ten different types of packaging. Again, they're saving the time. We're doing all of that work for them. And we specialize in food and retail businesses, hospitality and retail. So a lot of donut boxes, a lot of coffee cups, locally in Kitchener Waterloo, For All Ice Cream is a really important client of ours. She's been with us since day one, and I love working with Ajua, so she's awesome. So those are the kind of businesses we like to support, and it just falls into my wheelhouse because I I worked in hospitality for twenty years. So and I worked my way up through the Charcoal Group, so high end restaurants, ran a a restaurant before I left, then left and started my own food business, Crummy Cookie Dough, locally. We sold edible cookie dough. We sold it off. It it is still in business. But I I know what it's like to work in that industry. It's a very, very different kind of industry. And I but I also really strongly believe in marketing and branding. Like, when we started Crumby, one of the very first things we did was get our branding in line, start ordering packaging, like, because we just knew how important it was. So it's a nice marriage of the all of that. I can empathize with the lives these, clients are living in their entrepreneur their food entrepreneur space Yep. You know, and, still support them on their journey. So so, yeah, that's what we do. Speaker 0
That's great. And then, so I was gonna ask you too. So so there's a lot of I I feel like there's a lot of women that kinda get passed over on, like, CEO leadership kind of jobs. Do you have any advice, for women in that regard? Like, do you do you think that there's a there's an age where it's like, well, sorry. It's too late. You missed that boat? Or or maybe they Speaker 1
No. Great answer. Absolutely not. No. I I mean, on that note, I love nothing more than seeing not just a woman, but certainly a woman who, like I I, like, follow so many women on Instagram who are, like, in their eighties and lifting weights or, you know, just started doing whatever in their seventies, you know? And I'm like, so inspiring. Like, that is hashtag goals. Right? Like, I just it is never too late, a hundred percent. I think as a woman, you know, if you're looking to advance your career, I mean, you know, there's all those statistics that we probably all have heard in terms of, like, you know, men will apply for a job if they only have six sixty percent of the qualifications. Women wait till they have a hundred percent. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. It is you know, it's something you have to get over in in yourself of, like, having the confidence to go forward with that. I for me, some of the stuff in my career was, I was tapped for. Some of it, I went after. It really you know, it's kind of all over the place. A lot of it was in my early days was, like, being the employee who, like, was always there, was responsible, was professional, was always willing to go the extra mile. But that I don't mean, like, working eighty eighty hours a week. I just mean, like, thinking more critically about situations and being like, oh, how do we fix that? How do we solve that problem? Even if it wasn't my job. Figuring it out, jumping in, right, and being like, okay, this isn't my job, but I this is gonna make the company better, so how do I figure this out? And then, you know, the leaders recognizing that and being like, oh, you could go over here and you could do this. And it gave me all the skills that have led to where I am today. Right? So I think it's just being that person, showing up and being that person and always thinking critically, but then also having the confidence or if you don't pick till you make it. You know? Like, if you don't have the confidence, pushing yourself to be like, no. I think I could do that. I have most of the qualifications. I can I can do that? And not not listening to that voice inside your head that, you know, tells you otherwise. Right? Easier said than done, I know. But Speaker 0
Yeah. Of course. Of course. I mean, I I I I always find even for myself, I mean, not to I I sometimes I feel like I'm dumbing it down talking about hair and makeup, but it's like it's easier to give advice to to people like, oh, you do this with your skin care, do that, but half the time I go to bed with my makeup. Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. We we all we all wish we could follow our own advice. Right? But Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1
I think as you I think as you get older, like, to me, that is the benefit of fifty and and aging is, like, you have the wisdom. You've been through things. You know you're gonna come out the other side. Right? Like, I kind of liken it to, like, the analogy to me is, like, somebody said to me at one point, and it was true in my life, like, your very first breakup when you're a teenager I don't know if this resonates for you guys, but, like, I had a boyfriend break up with me when I was thirteen, and it was probably, like, the worst breakup of my life because I thought my world was over. Right? Like, because I'd never been through it before. And he dumped me and everybody knew, and I was like I I was devastated. Right? Like, I just I still remember the sobbing. Right? And, like, at the end of the high school and dated other people and was you know, not that I wasn't upset, but, like, I knew I could come out of it. Right? So I think that analogy plays with just general life and wisdom and age. As you get to this point, I'm like, you know what? I faked that situation and I made it work. I can do it again. I can do this. I can do that. And just trusting your judgment. Right? Because you've been through it and you've proven yourself right in different situations. Speaker 0
And I and I guess too is, like, taking from your, like, failures or mishap like, I mean, we learn from our experiences. Right? So so that's kinda what you're saying right there. Speaker 1
Absolutely. When you're, yeah, when you're twenty five, you're like, I don't know. I've never done this before. Right? But now I'm fifty, and I'm like, I've done that or I've done something similar or I know somebody who's done it or, you know, whatever, and you just take all that knowledge and and internalize it. Right? Speaker 0
I I got, I got fired from the very first hair salon that I worked at, and that was, Frenzy in Waterloo. The owner was a complete jackass. Told me that I would amount to nothing, in this career and that I should just find something else. Wow. And I think I was eighteen or nineteen. And, and so that always stayed with me. And I almost feel like that kind of added to, like, challenging me to just kind of, like, I can fucking do this. Yep. And and so I ended up, you know, moving to Toronto, doing trade school, because at the time when I worked at Frenzio, I was just an apprentice. Worked, worked at a salon in Yorkville. And, you know, as my life kind of unfolded, then I ended up, you know, being on television doing makeover shows and at least the hairstyles for fashion week and Canadian Idol and, like, blah blah blah blah blah. And it was kinda like that mentality as I'll fucking show you. Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. Don't tell me I can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I I I find it I find it shocking. So I was, again, like, just kinda doing some research. And and on Statistics Canada, so the current the current numbers, I would assume, it says only twenty three percent of Canadian women are CEOs. Twenty three percent. But that's ridiculously low. Speaker 1
What did I saw something recently, like, there's more Mikes. There's more of CEOs named Mike than there are female CEOs or something. Like, it's crazy. Right? Speaker 0
That is crazy. Speaker 1
More white guys named Mike than Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, are there programs and things that are that are do you know, like, that are kind of leading to, like, helping women advance, or is it something that we kinda need to do in our own Speaker 1
hundred percent are. Especially in this region, I feel like, like this area is so entrepreneurial focused, whether it's, you know, I was trying to explain this to some woman who called me the other day too. She was starting up this women's network in Toronto, and she had reached out to see if I'd be interested. And I was like, honestly, I'll be honest with you, I'm not gonna drive in Toronto once a month, like, you know, but let me tell you, you should Speaker 0
be looking at water Speaker 1
you yeah. And let me I'm like, you should be looking at Waterloo, man. Like, there is absolutely space here for a chapter of women entrepreneurs. Like, it's it's whether it's our Mennonite roots or whether it's Blackberry, you know, training all these people, and then when they went under, they went all off and did their own things. Like, there's so many factors that have led to it, but, you know, we are a very entrepreneurial region. And so there where there are, like, there's a female, like, I we we co work out of Communitech. We rent space in Communitech. There's a few different programs out of Communitech specifically for tech, but, for that support female founders. There's, I participated when we had crummy. I participated in one out of an accelerator in Guelph that was specifically called Rise Up for for female founders. There's all kinds of them. If you just get out there and look and start talking to people, And, you know, it's great. Right? Like, I I don't formally participate in anything right now around that, but I do absolutely recognize the importance of mentors and network now more than I ever have. Like, networking is kind of like a word where people are like, I hate that. You know? Whatever. But, you know, a friend of Amy's and I put together recently this kind of mastermind dinner where she invited, like, you know, a dozen women, and that's kind of where I met Amy. And, it was amazing. Like, just get women around the table who are different stages of their careers and their lives and really just get them talking because women are supportive. Like, we we know better, I think, than men, like, I'll generalize, than how to be supportive of each other and how to collaborate. It is more natural to us. And so, you know, I'm not in anything formal, but I do recognize the importance of mentors and supporters and how important that is, especially as an entrepreneur when you're just trying to figure it out and the whole weight of everything is on your shoulders and, you know, you sometimes need things to you need to bounce things off other people. So I I think that's such an important thing. Speaker 0
Do you yeah. Absolutely. And do you do you find that oh, I I just wanna quickly backtrack too just for people that don't know that are listening because Amy doesn't, like, jump in. But Amy is my producer. So so shout out to Amy. It's a crime in the corner that you can't see. Yeah. But but, so back back to, like, supporters. So I agree with you. Like, women supporting women. Like, you see that hashtag all the time, and a lot of times we do support each other. Now I personally find and no offense to, like, some of my friends out there, but I personally find most of my supporters are coming from women who I've networked with and met. They're not necessarily friends. Now I don't wanna say, again, to my good friends that are listening and following, and I appreciate that. So I that is, you know, recognized, but I I it's funny. Like, I have a few friends who I have asked them for feedback saying, like, oh, like, I've dropped, like, five episodes now. Like, what do you think? Oh, Andrea, I haven't been listening. And I'm like, Speaker 1
oh, okay. Speaker 0
But I don't even know what to say to that. I'm like, okay. You know? Like Yeah. I've, you know? Speaker 1
Yeah. I wonder what that is. If it's just like this foundation of friendship you already have and they know like, you know, where when you meet somebody in business and it's more recent, there's maybe a bit more of, like, you wanna prove to each other, you know, that you're supporting. Whereas if, like, if you had a friend for twenty years, you already know you're supporting each other. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1
Like Don't listen to your podcast. Right? But yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway yeah. So, so would do you have any any kind of other advice, like, for women that are wanting to kinda see like like, are there signs maybe at the current workplace that they have that maybe it's just not for them and maybe they should look at that? Like, maybe their advancement is not where they're at, but maybe they need to move to another job. Maybe they need to open up their own. Speaker 1
Easy to say. I know. But, like and I'm not because I'm I wouldn't like, you know, what comes to mind is they'll follow your passion and whatever, and that's not you know, for me, that's not where how I ended up where I am. I was never, like, passionate about packaging, you know. So it's it's it's not that simple for everyone. Some people do have one thing that they wanna do and they're meant to do. And and if you do, if you have that urge, follow it. Do it. Figure it out. Right? Especially in today's world, like, my daughter is an artist, and she struggled for years. Like, do I do art as a hobby? Do I do it? You know? And I think she still struggles to some extent, but I'm like, dude, like, in this world, like, you don't it's not like you have to go out and get a job at a museum. Like, you can just be on Instagram, sell your art, and, you know, like, it's so easy, you know, easier, right, to do kind of, like, be a YouTuber, be a podcaster. Like, there's a million ways. That doesn't mean it's easy. It's so hard work. But there's so many more opportunities and avenues open for passions to follow. Right? But if you don't have that, like and not everybody does, and I never did. I didn't have that one thing. I just knew I was a leader. I knew I was somebody who liked to work with other people, like to make change. I think it's just like if you're in a situation where that's not it's not working for you, then change it. Like, easy to say, you've got kids, you've got you know, but, like, you know, there's nothing worse than being in a situation at work where you're just unhappy. Speaker 0
Well, and then you're also not going that extra mile too. Like, if you're unhappy for whatever reason, you're not gonna put your efforts into it. I've I've been so a couple things. I won't Speaker 1
Right. Speaker 0
I, I've been, listening on Audible. I bought the book, but I found I couldn't follow the book. But for some reason, I can follow it on Audible, like, the becoming of a change maker, which is a really, really great, really great listen. Maybe a read if you can follow the reading. But then just just about your daughter as an artist, like, the one thing that I find interesting so I consider myself an artist as well. Right? And and I my youngest actually, all three of my kids are artists, but my youngest one goes to the Otopical School of the Arts, And, and she's in in musical theater program, wants to be a singer or songwriter. And there have been people throughout the years, so she's in grade eleven, who have said to her, oh, like, what's gonna be your backup career? And that's been one of the my biggest pet peeves because I also kinda think, like, don't say that to my child. Like, if you have a child that's following the arts and you wanna tell your child to pick a backup career, fine. But I but I kind of agree with you. It's kinda like following your passion, and there is so many different avenues there. Right? So it's like for me as a hair and makeup artist, you know, it's like like, now this is a new thing for for me doing a podcast, but it's like I've I've done some bridal, which is is not my passion, but I will I will do bridal. I mean, it's not like it's not with that. But you know what I mean? I Speaker 1
know what you mean. I used to do catering. I get it. Yeah. No. Yeah. We did wedding catering. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm always like like, I don't like the wedding market. Like, I'm not like a wedding makeup artist. I always say to people, like, you can look at my breadth of work, my portfolio, and if it resonates with you, then I'm happy to do your wedding. You know? But but it's like again, it's like I've I've done I've done things like like running teams. I've done advertising. I've done, like, red carpet. So they're and so, again, with visual artists, like, they could they could get into doing graphic design. They could get into doing creative direction. You know? It all kind of falls in in that, like, avenue. Yeah. And so, yeah. And I think I think too, like, you're saying, like, there's all these opportunities too with, like, YouTube's in influencing, like TikTok. Like, it kind of you spread your spread your wings out. Right? Speaker 1
Find your little niche. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. So I'm I'm just curious too. Is there any other kind of tips that you would kind of pass on to women that are that are kind of looking at maybe a career pivot or, I mean, you've said some really great things already. Speaker 1
Yeah. I can't think of much else. I mean, I think it really just comes down to, like like, I've pivoted a bunch of times in my career, and I thought I was go it I think it's about being open, and I know, like, you hear that a lot, but that's absolutely true. Like, I ended up at Georgette because I was done with the hospitality industry. I had left the charcoal group because I was just done with that lifestyle. And I I knew I was opening this other food business, but it wasn't gonna be able to pay me for a while. And I was convinced I was going to get into because we're such a tech hub, I was going to get into customer success in tech. That was my focus. I was so sure that was where I was going and interviewed and applied all over the place, had, you know, knew because I was I knew so many people from working at the Charcoal for so long that were in that industry, people helping me, mentoring me, whatever. I ended up, I had a mentor who connected me with the owner of Georgette, and he was just like, just, you know, she's it's a great growing company. Have a look. Go talk to her. Had a quick little meeting with Sarah, and she offered me a thirty day trial as a salesperson because I had never done, like, this kind of sales, like, outbound and all of that. And I was and, literally, that's how it started. I needed something to pay the bills. I was driving Skip and Uber just to help my husband support, you know, me while I figured out what I was doing next, thinking I was just gonna get into tech, you know, whatever. Tried out as a thirty day salesperson. Two weeks into that, I was like, no. This is not for me. I am not into cold calling and, you know, whatever. But then somebody announced they were pregnant, who was in the operation side, and I approached her. And I was like, hey. I don't think sales is for me, but I can help you there. Like and it just, you know, snowballed from there. Right? Like, just just being open to whatever life is like, we all I'm not, like, a super planner, but some people, like, you know, you have a five year plan or where you think you're gonna be. Like, are you where you thought you were gonna be five years ago? Because chances are you're probably not. Right? You're probably in somewhere because life throws shit at you. Right? And you just deal with it. So I really think it's just about yeah. It's totally about being open to whatever. Right? And trying it out, giving it a try. Speaker 0
I get I guess too that that, you know, when you're open, like, sometimes just the opportunities just kind of come to you. Right? So it sounds like that's kind of what happened with you, which is amazing. Sure. Speaker 1
And you'd be smart. You don't wanna say yes to everything because, you know, sometimes it's not a good idea or whatever, but just because it's different. Like, I'd never been a salesperson, but I was like, oh, I'll try it. And here I am seven years later, and I own the company. Right? So, like, I did not know that was coming seven years ago. So Speaker 0
That's great. As you've been getting older, have you, like, found any challenges that you face being, like like, an old I I wanna say older woman because I hate that terminology, but somebody with experience, in the workforce. Have you found any challenges with that, or is it just been kind of smooth sailing, or it depends on who you're dealing with? Speaker 1
Yeah. I don't not yet. I don't see but then I've been in this position for the last three or four years. And so, you know, as an owner and leader, I don't know that that's you know, I'm not butting up against people above me or anything like that. We'll see as it progresses. Like, I think our society does is ageist in general. My husband is is almost ten years older than me, and he has experienced just like, you know, he would when he he's now stepped back from his full time job. But when he was in his full time job, he would sometimes come home and be like, you know, I just feel like people were talking to me today like I was stupid. Like, I'm the stupid old guy in the room. You know? Like and he was like, I don't think I've changed. I don't you know? But he's like, I just sometimes feel. Every once in a while, I get the vibe that people are like, yeah. You're just an old guy. You know? You don't know what you're talking about. Right? As he approached sixty and thereabouts. Right? And, you know, so I'm kind of aware of that, like, that and I I can see that a little bit even sometimes, like, with younger staff members who are, like, trying to school me in something tech and or they're surprised when I know something tech related. Right? Like or they're surprised when I know current music or whatever. Right? Like, woah. I'm like, dude. Like, I mean and there's nothing wrong with being stuck in whatever. The nineties were great, but, like, yeah. I'm you know, it's okay. Like, old old people older people can also keep up with the times. You know? So I do see hint the hints of it. Speaker 0
Yeah. I I also think, like, with with us, like, Gen X, like, we seem to kind of, like we were a lot of us were, like, latchkey kids doing stuff on our own. So it's just, like, we just kind of know the progression. Like, we just kind of, like, figure figure shit out on our own. Right? Yeah. And and I've had I've had people where it's, like, you know, you get, like, a new iPhone or, I don't know, something tech, and then someone oh, like, oh, you know, ask one of your kids that can help you figure it out. I'm like, I always help them fucking figure it out. They don't know. Like, I'm I'm teaching now. Speaker 1
Yeah. Nobody helped me. Like, yeah. I've gone from complete analog life to complete digital life, and I've figured it out. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think you had you had asked me at one point about resilience, and I think, like, a hundred percent, I attribute I I do consider myself a very resilient person, and that doesn't mean everybody in our generation was resilient, but I do think there's something to be said for Gen x and latchkey. I was a latchkey kid. My parents separated when I was twelve, and I literally came home and made dinner, let myself in, looked after my sister until my mother got home. Right? No cell phones. If I fell off my bike two miles from home, I figured it out. Right? I mean, I know it's cliche, but it's it's a hundred percent true. It absolutely made me more resilient. And, you know, I think too, for me personally, I was fortunate to have role models of women. So my my family, I come I, you know, my sister and I like to say we come from a very long line of strong women. My mother, you know, her and my dad had a rocky relationship. It's all great now. Like, everybody gets along, but they separated and, you know, she raised us as a single mom, basically. Her mother in the fifties got pregnant with twins as a single mother in a small town, gave birth to to twins in nineteen fifty four, raised them on her own. Her mother was a a Mohawk native Indian who married a white man, lost her status, you know, went through a lot as as you can, like, as you can imagine. Right? Went to a residential school. That was my great grandmother. So, like, I have this incredible line of women to look up to. It wasn't always perfect. It's not you know, there's lots of mess and lots of, you know, stuff going on there in our family, but it's still, like, it informed my life for sure and my sisters. You know, we just we have this line of women to look up to and, that absolutely informed resilience too. Right? Like you said, I might like, people who know me know, like, I'm famous for just saying, like, when something's presented to me, I'm like, how hard can it be? We'll figure it out. Like, how hard can it be? Honestly, like and even when I went into business for myself, I remember listening to, there's a podcast called How I Built This. It's been around for a long time now, but he interviews famous entrepreneurs and, you know, his his in his early days. I can't remember if it's the first one or the second episode he interviewed Sarah Blakely who started Spanx. And it just like, it resonated with me and a lot of those early ones, like Ben and Jerry's and whatever. But Yeah. Spanx, you know, here's a woman who literally just wanted to have wanted to wear a pair of linen pants that didn't show her underwear through them and want just kinda smooth everything out. Right? And I was going to Bergdorf's and cutting the feet out of nylons, pantyhose, and and talked to the woman at Bergdorf's and found out that a lot of women did this and went, This is an idea. Well, she was selling fax machines door to door. That was her job. She knew nothing about right? But and now she's still the single owner of that billion dollar company. Right? Like, built it from the ground up, didn't know anything, literally said, how hard could it be? I can do this. I can figure it out. Wrote her own patents, you know, found literally took a two week vacation from her fax machine job and went door to door knocking on factory doors and been like, somebody make this for me. Yeah. You know? And I think there is, like I'm not saying, of course, there's people in this generation that are like that as well. But, yeah, I think there is something to be said. We we all had to figure it out. Right? We've lived through so much change in our fifty years, right, that and we've just had to roll with it and figure it out. So Speaker 0
So true. Yeah. It's a generation of, like, problem solving on our own Yeah. For sure. I feel like that's also kind of added to for, like, for me for my my career just because, you know, sometimes you'll be on set and the director will ask you for something, and you might not necessarily know how to do it, but you're like, yeah. Absolutely. I got it. And you go into the back room. Okay. Let's figure this out. Sure. Speaker 1
Yeah. Fake it till you make it. Speaker 0
Exactly. Fake it till you make it. Well, Jennifer, it's been an amazing conversation. I really appreciate your time. Yeah. So and I definitely want to maybe I'll come meet you at a drop in dance class Speaker 1
for me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 0
I'll have to re I have to relisten to my episode on the pelvic floor in case I have any tips that I need to bring with you. Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, the I mean, it's my my new one of my new favorite sayings is, like, the only way out is through. Right? Whether it's dance class or with like, whatever it is. Right? So, like, it was super easy in the early days of taking and I'm still far from perfect at dance class. But, like, I can feel myself getting better. And it was super easy to just, like, look at the teacher and look at the other people and be like, I'm never gonna get this. You know? And but it's like everybody literally every single person started as a beginner. Right? Like, there is no other way to start. Speaker 0
That's true. Speaker 1
And, yes, some people have innate talent and whatever, and maybe that gives them a bit of a leg up. But there's a lot that whole ten thousand hours theory, whatever, like, there's lots of people that just made it work. Right? And the only way out is through. Speaker 0
I noticed you a lot of your videos. You're like that. You're like the front, the front row. I'll be in the back. Yeah. Speaker 1
Do I just get right up in front? Yeah. Speaker 0
Yep. You're like, I'm committing. Speaker 1
I literally don't care. Right? Speaker 0
That's great. Speaker 1
That's great. And I just like to you know, I've had a lot of moments where I especially when I started speaking generations, like, it it hasn't been our generation to, like, post videos of ourselves dancing or singing. You know? Like, that's not what we've grown up as. Right? And so when I when I first started dancing, I was really hesitant and shy about posting those videos because it didn't feel right. It didn't feel weird. It felt very like, oh, I'm asking for attention or whatever. And often still, like, I'll get almost every time I post something like that, I'll get a DM or I'll get a comment that is just like, oh my god. You're so inspiring. Or, oh my god. I can't I hope I'm like you when I'm fifty or, you know, or whatever. Or or, like, I went and met some girlfriends from university last weekend in Toronto, and the one like, she never comments on anything. She never likes anything. I know she follows me. But literally, the second I sat down, she was like, I am so proud of you. I'm like, well, what? What did I do? And she was like, I just love following your dancing and all the things you're doing, and she's like, it's awesome. Speaker 0
That's so nice. Speaker 1
And so, like, that you know, I'm like, you know what? It's okay. It's okay to share these things. And and I and I wanna I wanna be a different example for the women behind us. Right? Like Speaker 0
Absolutely. Speaker 1
We had a different example. The boomer generation didn't you know, we're doing we're doing midlife and retirement and fifties differently than the boomers were. Right? And I wanna set that example for the millennials and the gen z years and all of that so to know that it's okay. You know? You know? You can just be whatever you wanna be. Speaker 0
Absolutely. I I love I love seeing your videos because, again, like, it's inspirational. It kind of show like, I'm I just turned fifty four, so I just kinda think, like, okay. Like, maybe maybe I can try this. And, Yeah. And, obviously, other other women are gonna feel the same way. You know? And it's nice to see somebody that's posting things that are real because I've seen some women that are over fifty that are posting things, and you see the filters. And and it's just and I and I get it because a lot of times, people are not posting, like, real because because social media is kind of, you know, advert aspirational advertising, basically. So so to filter through and see the non filtered, that's great. So thank you for hearing all that. Speaker 1
Yeah. No problem. No problem. It's a struggle. We all look in the mirror and be like, I don't look like I was when I was twenty five. You know? And we because we we don't see ourselves that way in our head. Right? But Yeah. I try to just remind myself that it's better to be real. Right? It's better to be real for those behind me, for those looking, because I don't I like it when I see real things. So Speaker 0
And especially being mothers of daughters too. I feel like that's also important. Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. I'm sure my kids think it's totally cringe that I post videos. But Speaker 0
Well, I don't I don't think, I don't know if you if you've listened to the the podcast, but my last, my last episode, I opened up talking about yeast infections and putting hydrogen peroxide, in between my legs when I was, Speaker 1
you Speaker 0
know, in my early twenties. So I was waiting for my youngest daughter to be like, mom, seriously, stop Speaker 1
it. Yep. Yep. It's life. Speaker 0
Thanks for tuning in to the fuck you fifties. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow and rate the podcast. And we'd love to connect with you on Instagram, so be sure to follow us at the fuck you fifties. The fuck you fifties is hosted by Andrea Clare and edited and produced by Bespoke Productions Hub. See you next time. 