Breaking Barriers: Feminist Insights from a 75-Year-Young Advocate: Jenny Amy aka Aunt Jenny
Episode Details
Transcript
In this conversation, Andrea and Jenny Amy discuss the women's movement. They explore the challenges faced during this life transition, addressing the societal factors that contribute to unconscious bias. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding one's rights and the resources available to navigate this challenging process. The discussion emphasizes the emotional complexities involved in and the need for self-care and empowerment, particularly for women navigating this life transition. Family law reform in Canada in the 70s, rape crisis centres, women’s shelters, rotary and more.
Links and Resources
Jenny Amy’s Chantry Breezes Bed & Breakfast
Andrea’s hair recommendations from the shower opener
Detoxifying Shampoos:
K18 - this is the one I tend to use
Kevin Murphy Maxi.Wash - this one is very powerful so I wouldn’t use it frequently
ColorWOW Dream Filter is a pre-shampoo buildup removing treatment. Its amazing!
Shampoo for fine hair:
Oribe Shampoo for Magnificent Volume - Oribe products are worth every penny but they will break the budget - just buyer beware! Cha-Ching!
Shampoo for Oily hair:
Rosemary Mint by Aveda - I prefer pairing my shampoos with the conditioner set so seek out the Rosemary Mint Conditioner too
Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Shampoo - this will wake you up if it hits your nether regions…
Leave in conditioner:
Iles Formula Finishing Serum works great as a thermal protector as well
Thermal Protection Spray
TRESemmé Leave-in Heat Protection Spray - spray on wet or dry hair. This adds hold, shine and heat protection!
Redken Hot Sets 22 has been a fave of mine forever
*please note that some links are affiliate links and we may earn a wee pittance
Connect with The F*CK You 50s
Andrea
As we get older, we can definitely see a change in our hair, and I'm not talking the grays. But before commercialism has you pointing fingers at perimenopause or menopause, first have a look at what's really happening with your hair. Are you experiencing hair fall? Before you check it off as female balding, run your fingers through your hair, roots to ends. Did a clump of hair drop in your hand? Does it happen each time? We naturally drop fifty to one hundred hairs per day, so what you're seeing could be normal, or if your hair is damaged, that could be breakage. Does your hair seem abnormally flat? How long is your hair? How long are your layers? Long hair with zero layers will drag your hair down and feel flat. We are definitely not in the hit your fifties and chop your hair so you can demand to see the manager era anymore. I personally love long hair, but one length can be a drag, literally. Dragging your face down, flattening your hair, making your face seem round, adding layers adds volume and dimension. Does your hair seem thin? Does your stylist get thinning sheer happy? Do you have a lot of gray but coloring it dark? Gray roots can make your hair seem thin in contrast with an artificial dark color at the ends. The list could go on, and I'm not trying to hair shame you, but honestly to quickly summarize if you have any concerns with your hair you want to get a referral to a dermatologist first. Don't ask your friend or your hairstylist to diagnose what's happening because it could be nothing or there could be something underlying. And if you're seeing a menopause specialist, bring it up with them as well as hormones could play a part. Lately, I have been dealing with an oily scalp that I probably had when I was like eleven or twelve. Now at fifty four, once a week I'm using a detoxifying shampoo that's perfect for me. I have a few faves, so check the show notes for my suggestions. So once you've gotten the clean bill of health, then next step is to look at do you need a haircut or a reshape? Do you need a treatment? Have you been overusing keratin based products, which can actually cause breakage with overuse or makes your hair super flat? Do you have build up on your hair and need to use a detoxifying shampoo? And are you using the correct shampoo and conditioners for your hair type? Are you combing through your conditioner with a wide tooth comb before rinsing it out so it's evenly distributed throughout your entire hair shaft? Are you going to sleep with wet hair? Are you blow drying with the proper hair tool for you? See, there's a lot here going on. Actually, this is a great opportunity for me to mention Dyson versus Shark. I have both. Full disclosure, I was given both. And a humble brag, I worked with the Dyson beauty team in Singapore for the launch of the original Airwrap, which I love. Now Dyson is made to maintain your hair health, so the technology it uses stops your hair from overheating and getting damaged. I do also find, as a licensed hairstylist of over thirty five years, that the motor is so efficient at keeping the hair healthy that you don't always get the volume you want with the Dyson. So a Dyson is great if you want to maintain shiny, healthy hair, smoothness, and maybe your goal is reducing volume. If you're after longer lasting voluminous hair and are okay with slightly less shine and luster comparatively than the Dyson gives, I love the Shark. Now Shark PR didn't take me through it as intensely as Dyson, so I can't speak about how their technology works, but I can say it does not damage your hair. On my personal Instagram, I did a comparison with the Shark and the Dyson. The Shark, I feel, works with a drier heat, and that's why you get more volume. But with that, you also get more flyaways, which you could probably control with products. And just a reminder, my previous two episodes I had covered skin care and makeup in my intros with links for product recommendations in my show notes. I am doing the same here for hair. Now it's a really good idea to use a thermal protector. Thermal protectors help protect your hair shaft from styling tools and even the elements like UV rays for example. My favorite is by Ils formula. It says finishing serum on the package, which I personally feel they need to rebrand it. I tell them this all the time because it's more like a leave in conditioner, so don't be afraid of the word serum. Also, while we are on the subject of what to not be afraid of for our hair, number one is silicone. People have this misconception that silicone is bad for your hair, that it builds up on the hair shaft. Most silicones used in hair products are water soluble. This means as soon as you stand in the shower and water hits your hair, that silicone is being rinsed off. Now, silicone will smooth flyaways. It will add shine, but it can typically be heavy. So if you have fine hair, you want to stay away from silicone. If you have curly hair and you like to see volume, you might want to steer clear of silicone in your products. But if you want shine, smoothness, reduced volume, serums with silicones are great. Also, they help to lock in moisture as well as block out moisture so humidity's effect on hair is minimized. Just research that the silicone in your favorite hair product is the water soluble silicone. I feel that this whole misleading diatribe on silicone was influenced by the influencer those who do not know should not teach. Anyway, don't forget to check out the show notes for more on hair and your updated shopping list. Welcome to the Fuck You Fifties, the podcast for women who refuse to tolerate the bullshit anymore. This is real talk, real stories, and a long overdue reality check. I'm your host, Andrea Clare, and this podcast is the filter free voice you've been waiting for with a dose of f bombs, the fuck you fifties, unfiltered, unapologetic, and undeniably needed. I'm excited to welcome my next guest, Jenny Amie, who is a female firecracker. With a BA from Carleton in history and political science and a master's degree in library sciences from the University of Toronto, She is a powerhouse to have in your corner for sure. Jenny had actively participated in the Canadian family law reform of the seventies where women were being tossed aside after getting their MRS degrees and their skirt chasing husbands wanted to play house with a shiny new toy intentionally leaving their wives with nothing but debt and children. She also played a key role in establishing a woman's shelter in Halton, volunteered at a rape crisis center also in Halton region, and continuously advocates for many causes and is a card carrying feminist. Okay. Just kidding. I made that part up. She is a feminist, but are there cards? If so, I fucking want one. Jenny resides in Southampton, Ontario where she and my uncle Don, surprise she's my aunt Jenny, operate, Chantry Breezes, the largest bed and breakfast in the area. A mentor to many, including myself, aunt Jenny, welcome to the fuck you fifties. Jenny
Okay. The recording is going. My speakers in my same system as the mic. Is that working for you now? No. Andrea
Okay. Jenny
It's still recording. Should we stop it and start again? Andrea
No. That's fine because I can edit all that bullshit out. Okay. And I Jenny
put the sign on the door that says go bug Dawn. Andrea
Do you really have a sign that says that? Jenny
No. It says reception is not available at this time. Please contact Dawn Amy at blah blah blah blah. Andrea
Oh, nice. Okay. Yes. Anyway, thank you. Jenny
Sent me all those questions. I went and got all my little books out that I've written in over the years about what I really think. But no. I really think. It's so good. Andrea
And do you think some of your viewpoints have changed or not really? Jenny
No. But when you said have I done my bucket list, you know, I'm thinking, I have a bucket list? Andrea
Well, it's a it's a weird it's a weird kind of, like, question too. Like, I'm I'm kind of on the fence of of whether I like the concept of a bucket list. You know? Because because it's like does that mean you're, like, you know, just getting ready to, like, you know, this is the end. I'm checking it off. Jenny
Well no. But the other thing is I think sometimes if you make a list, it tends to limit you because you focus yourself back on that list because, you know, you made that list and you really thought about it. I don't know if you're gonna I bought a book many years ago. I'm just gonna look and see. It was, July ninety of nineteen ninety seven. And Jody was in a music or dance class or something, and so I I had to wait for her, you know. So I thought, well, I'm gonna go over to chapters because I have a five dollar gift certificate to spend money. So there was a book there called How to Succeed in Business Without a Penis, Secrets and Strategies for the Working Woman by a woman named Karen Sal Salmon's son. So she had a little thing in there as a self help book. You know? So she had a little thing in there about what you should look at and think about. So I thought, well, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna look at it. And it was things like, what would you do if you had unlimited time? What would you do if you didn't have any time? What would where would you go? What would you like to do with, you know, like, with your life kinda thing? Yeah. Money is no object and all the rest of that stuff. And I so I had played, but you were supposed to do ten things. I never got to ten in it. Well, one. Andrea
Okay. Jenny
The tenth one was say no more often. Andrea
Yes. Jenny
Which I have trouble with sometimes. Your mother says to me she says, you have no tattooed on your forehead. So when you look at it in the mirror, it says on. Andrea
I think I have the same tattoo. Jenny
I think you must. Yeah. I noticed that about you. Andrea
Oh my goodness. I mean, it's not a it's not a bad thing. It's just, like, I think sometimes I I probably take on too much, but I also kinda feel like the things that I take on, I feel are for the greater good. Maybe I don't know. Is that an ego thing? I don't know. Jenny
No. I I think that's a wonderful thing to think because too many people are thinking what's in it for me, and we have lots of, examples of that in the world right now, which is kind of a a challenge to meet other and that's partly why I got involved in service in a service club like Rotary because most of the people I knew from there were doing that out of a sense of community Andrea
Right. Jenny
And betterment and empathy and consciousness. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And so that when I got asked if I would join, it wasn't just a feminist. Like, I got asked to join and, you know, it's the first one in this club and blah blah blah. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
But but it was, I respected and really liked most of the people that I I mean, I didn't know anybody. Everybody in that club, there were over forty people. Andrea
Right. Jenny
But I knew, you know, maybe at least a third of them Andrea
from the new Rotary, was that in, Ottawa when you guys were not? Jenny
Oakville. Oakville. Oakville. Andrea
So, yeah, I guess, because I'm gonna I'm gonna definitely use, like, a lot of this conversation we've already been having, of course. But so just to kind of, like like, jump in just so all of my listeners know, this Jenny
is my aunt Jenny. And, Andrea
am I allowed to reveal your age, aunt Jenny
Jenny? Sure. Andrea
Okay. So my aunt Jenny just turned seventy five, and I've always felt she's been such a pat like, a positive influence on me and a bit of a female powerhouse, if that's okay to say. And Jenny
Oh gosh. I'm gonna blush. Andrea
I've always kinda felt that you're kind of, like, the, like, the strong, matriarch of our family, and I've always looked up to you. And, I mean and it's not just because you're the eldest, but it's just there's so many that. But I think that you've always had this kind I mean, again, for me speaking for me, like, just this positive influence of everything that you've done and then and then, you know, just the conversations that you and I have had even more kind of lately, which is also why I was like, I need to have you on my podcast because the things that you have done earlier on in your life and, like, the the one thing that we had talked about about the how you were involved in the family law reform in Yeah. In the late seventies. I mean, that's amazing. So, maybe you could speak a little bit about that. I mean, we can kind of, like, summarize it if that's possible. Jenny
Okay. Well, I I guess I have I had parents who were really great at helping you, go further down the path of your interest. So I guess and I first got exposed to politics when I was a high school student and lived in Montreal, because we had they had a speaker from one of the, come one time from a a parliamentarian and he spoke and was quite fascinating. And then I, when I was in high school, I was in a they had a school council. It was a Kitchener Waterloo. And they had, there's five or five high schools, I think, at the time. And they did a Dominion Provincial Convention. And they had somebody who represented federal politicians as well as provincial premiers. And so I, I wrote to Joey Smallwood because I got to do Newfoundland, and he sent me a letter back. And I was interested in their policies of the government at the time. Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
As I'm kind of a policy person, I'm not so much interested in the the cult of personality as I am in the the policies. So then, then we also had a a model UN assembly, which they still do. We also did a a parliament. Mhmm. And I was told that I was gonna be leader of the opposition and the opposition at the time because it was mister Trudeau was in office. And so, I I thought, oh, so what do the conservatives who were the who were the opposition what do they what are their policies? So I, I phoned around. I went to the library and they didn't have too much because, I mean, we didn't have all the access to every single thing in the universe like we do now. And and so then I phoned the conservative party in Toronto. They had a phone number for their office, so I called and I told them what I wanted. And so they had two guys call, my house and and say, hi. We're you know, whatever their names were. And, there's a conference going on in London next weekend, and we would take you down there to go to it. And my dad said, not in a million years. You're not going with two strange men down, you know, like this is the late sixties. Right? Sixty eight? And and there and so one of them was a lawyer. Anyways, they phoned back and talked to my dad and said they would be would love to come over and meet him. So I met, Bob Stanfield. I met Bill Davis. I met half the cabinet, the Ontario cabinet, and they gave me tons of information about their policies. And so and when we did the student parliament, we defeated the government just just had to boast there because that was a big deal. You know? I don't I don't know if this is true or not, but I feel like the people that were involved in parliament in those days did things for the greater good in their opinion. Yeah. As a university student, I went to Carleton. Mhmm. So I had a chance to go and sit in the house when there was question period. And this was the olden days when they didn't have TV. So nobody was involved in performance art. Andrea
Right. Jenny
So there wasn't name calling. I mean Yeah. And the honorable member from blah blah is mistaken. Andrea
Right. Jenny
Not you're an effing liar or anything like that. You know? I've been I've Andrea
been more respectful and, like, Jenny
very respectful in my my experience. And and I also read Hansard, which is the the word by word report of what was said in the House of Commons on a particular day. So, anyway, so when it came to stuff like family reform family law reform and stuff like that, I had been involved in, you know and and it was most mostly in the conservative party because that was had been my introduction. You You know? And they had a women's wing of the party in the province. So I was involved in that. And, it was quite I mean, how you negotiated with government people, peep people that worked with the MPs and the ministers and stuff like that. And and we had some fantastic women involved in this. And, I mean, Mary Eberts was one, that I remember. And there's two or three other women lawyers who have gone on to be yeah. I mean, I think they're retired mostly now, but had gone on to do some phenomenal work. You know? And the other thing is when you're in an organization like that Mhmm. Now I don't wanna be really rude about it, but I met an, a higher percentage of women who were in the fifties, in their age group to sixty, roughly, and I was in my thirties. These women had married fairly young when they were in university, most of them. Men who became doctors and lawyers. Yeah. And who now, and they had three to five kids and, you know, blah blah blah, did all this stuff. But they had dropped out of university to support these men who went and became very successful in their field. And then this cute young thing comes along that they decide, the secretary or the nurse or whatever, and they decided, well, ditch the bitch and let's just have a new a whole new relationship. Yeah. So these women had that much unless they had a family who had, left them a lot of money. But most of them ended up with almost nothing. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Didn't get the cottage. Didn't get the house. Didn't get the car, didn't have the artwork that you know? Andrea
They had Jenny
they had nothing. And they hadn't continued their education because they were supporting their lover. You know? Andrea
They got their MRS degree. Right? Wasn't that, like, exactly the thing then? Jenny
What the hell? And and even when I was at university, everybody said, oh, you got your m m r MRS? Yeah. Yeah. Well, in fact, I did end up with an MRS as well as an MLS, but never mind. I mean, it it was shocking to me. I guess I hadn't met my family lived in a regular sort of upper middle class neighborhood, and you didn't see much of that. Andrea
Yeah. It's it's interesting. I I had a, I had my my previous, guest that she's a family law lawyer, and so there's this new concept. Or maybe it's not new, but it's, like, new to me. Like, I was doing research to kind of see what topics I could cover, and there's this, concept of the gray divorce or the walk away divorce. And it's women in their fifties are kind of deciding that they don't wanna be married. Jenny
Enough is enough? Andrea
Yeah. Enough is enough is basically what it is. And and, and so I was asking this lawyer, like, what happens because I know, like, you know, in this day and age, there's a lot of women that work and have their own income, but there still is I feel like and I don't know if I'm, like, the last generation of it, although people talk about trad wives, which is a whole other thing. Right? But but there's a lot of Gen X women in my age group that have not really been working, or they don't have the same kind of like, it's not like the the double income, you know, lifestyle. And so what happens with these women that have nothing but wanna leave? Like, at like, are you trapped then? And and so, unfortunately, I still think there's a lot of, like, hoops to jump through, but this lawyer was saying that, yeah, there's a way to get through, like, a divorce that you can leave. If you have no money, there's, like, different, things that they can do, like interim, support payments and things. But she was saying that, you know, and just from my experience as a child, you know, like, I said, what happens if you have someone that is, like, in a job where they can do a lot of cash payments? And she said, yeah, well, that is a problem because they still have that. There's a lot of people that are, you know, freelancers or contractors or whatever, and they have what they have on paper to avoid paying alimony and child support. So that's But Jenny
they also avoid paying tax. You see? So that's where it's CRA gets their knickers in a twist. You know? Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Yeah. And the other thing well, the other thing is now it also is flip side. So I've met, you know, not a lot, but a few, certainly, who have had good steady jobs Mhmm. In whatever they've been doing and, had a decent income, and their spouse decides they don't feel like working anymore. They're not gonna take care of the kids or anything. They're just gonna golf or Yeah. Andrea
They're Jenny
gonna sit around at home because they don't wanna work. And, yeah, that's kind of an issue because then she has to pay them alimony Yeah. And she has to split her, you know, the the health insurance and all the rest of that stuff. And, and have and a large part of their pension. Her pension has he gets off the pension. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
But, you know so, anyway, it's it's, so some women are really annoyed about that, and I'm thinking, well, it used to be the other way around. Andrea
Yeah. That's that's true too. Jenny
At least everybody's got equal pay in a way. Andrea
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jenny
I was talking about that with one of my BNB clients this morning too about how, you know, equal pay is still not equal pay even though it was in the nineteen sixties when that act came in. It's still, like, about an eighty eighty percent payment that got paid. Andrea
So so when you were working on that family, law reform, like, was there was there things that you had, like, worked with, like, with, obviously, with the team of people where you guys had kind of put into play or was it just kind of opening up doors? Or Jenny
I think it was it was opening doors. It was having that relationship as a member of an executive body in that political party Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
And and you so you have access to the people that have run for office. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And you say this is an issue that needs to be resolved. And sometimes as I think it was, Bob Elgie said to me one time. He was a cabinet minister in the provincial government. We were at a meeting and something was brought up, and they just said, well, we're not gonna do anything. We're not gonna take that as an issue. You know? Mhmm. And I said, why wouldn't you do that? I mean, that's clearly an issue that needs work. And he said and he this guy's got degrees coming up, the yin yang. You know? And he says, well, Jen, as we say down at the farm a turd, don't stink till you kick it. Andrea
That's a good takeaway. Jenny
Yeah. Well, you know, it's true. Right? Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Nothing can lie there like housing issues, like, you know, you know, beating your wife, stuff like that. You know? You can sit around for hundreds of years before somebody finally says that's enough. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
We gotta fix this. Andrea
Yeah. Being seventy five years old, you've gone through so much in your life. Right? And then when you you were telling me about being in Halton or, like, yeah, Halton. Right? Like, in Oakville and and, and helping open up the first women's shelter. Jenny
Sheridan College, had a women's center at that point, and, it was in the nineties. Andrea
Were you were you working at Sheridan College then Jenny
or not? Not at that point. No. I was in the public library system. Andrea
Right. Jenny
Yeah. So, yeah, they had a a women's conference. I think there's about a hundred and twenty five women there from all over Halton at least, invited to come for the day. Mhmm. And then they they had some good speakers and everything else. And then they broke us into two or three or four I guess it was four groups. And they said, go away in your group and in a one of these classrooms and sit and talk to each other about what you think the most the most, pressing issue is for women now and then come back and report. Yeah. So, the group that I was with came back and said, the worst thing that happens to women that we know is that you don't feel safe in your own home. And most a lot of us don't have that problem. We feel safe in our home. But there was a there's a lot of women and there were women at that meeting who were who were not safe in their home. It's a horrible thing to have to go through in life and not feel safe. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
So, we thought, okay. So how can we do stuff? What can we do about this? So we got a little team together about I think there were about six or eight of us and said we're gonna work on this. Like, we're making a time commitment. One of the women was, a young black woman who had two kids and was a welfare mom. Mhmm. Lived in, you know, supported housing and everything else. And so she and I hit it off, and we started really working hard. I mean, the others worked too. You know, it's just what so we said, we gotta talk about this with people who who make decisions. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And, so I had, also been helping with the rape crisis center just, you know, like friends who started that. It was called the Halton Rape Crisis Center. And then, so I knew some people on the police force, women more. But, also, I had met a few of the officers that were, you know, higher up in rank. And then we also they said, well, if you're gonna do this kind of thing, you're gonna need to talk to the justice system and the enforcement people and the psychologists. And, and and what happens, like, what happens if somebody calls and and needs help? What happens? Well, sometimes they the police department can help, but that it's much more at that time, it wasn't normal. Right. It was just you know, they took somebody took her to the hospital, and, they said, oh, well, we'll patch you up. How did this happen? Well, gee, that's too bad. You know? Andrea
That was the nineties? Jenny
I'm trying to remember how far back that was, and I would have to look. But, I think I think it was eighties. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Like, the eighties. In fact, it was actually no. I'm sorry. I go back. It was the seventies. Late seventies because Donna and I moved to Ottawa in seventy eight. And I was well involved in that. And we had somebody from the secretary of state department, federally Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
Who was, charged with helping organizations that wanted to do something about this in their community and was able to access some funding and if you had all your ducks in a row. And so we figured that it would take us about five years to get everything lined up to find a building that we could and fundraise enough that we could find something that we could buy and get all the support for. And so I moved to Ottawa after we've been working for about a year and a half on it. Okay. And, and so we It Andrea
seems it seems kind of like I mean, I guess you have to get all the ducks in the row as you say, but it it seems crazy that it takes five years to get Jenny
some But but, you know, so this is an issue that people have been living with for millennial. Yeah. Like, millennium. You know? Yeah. So you need to have to talk to, like so who's gonna intervene? Well, the police department. So what's the police department's attitude towards spousal abuse? You know? Yes. You have to take have two officers because sometimes, you know, you gotta the guys attacking her or whatever. I mean, and there are, you know, like, a small percentage of cases where the female is the attack is the abusive partner, but they're much less. But anyway so you have this issue of the first responder needs to be sympathetic or have something that they can do with this person who needs to get the heck out of there. So you either arrest the guy and take him out or you what can you do for her? Is there anything you know? So is it better to and there's children involved too. So Children's Aid Society is involved. Yeah. And so you gotta work through how all these agencies work, how can you get them to work together, how can you find a place for people, and do you find that place by fundraising and buying a house to and then making it in making it a like, a fort? Right. So people can't get into it. Like, how do you do all that? Andrea
And we Jenny
had to come we were working our way through all of that kind of stuff. Andrea
Sorry. I was just gonna say, do do you know were there other, like, organizations that had something like this already that you could kind of look at what they had done and see kinda learn from Jenny
Oh, yeah. There were some women's shelters set up, in other places. Toronto had one or two. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
London. You know, mostly, it was bigger cities Yeah. And, all that kind of stuff. But yes. So then and then there's the whole network of those people. Right. But, you know, often people start out isolated in their community. The people whether they're people who are in trouble or people who wanna help. Right. Often, it's because you've got a relative or a friend or a neighbor that you think you know? And then people say don't get involved because you know what's gonna happen, that they're gonna come after you too if they're really that bad. To continue this story, I we went we we went and lived in Ottawa for two and a half years. And so when we came back, I moved back to Oakville. Yeah. And somebody said to me, hey. You know that group you were working with? And I said, yeah. They said they're gonna open their their the house in, like, in September. We moved back in June, I think. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And we thought I thought, wow. That's a you know, that's, like, fantastic. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
It all developed from there. And it's a there's unfortunately, there's still a well developed system for women, but it's not big enough because the problem hasn't changed. What's what's changed is that you can sometimes get them out for at least six weeks. Andrea
It's, yeah, it's unfortunate that it's Jenny
a lot of people go back because it's too hard with no money, no job, three kids, you know, and somebody that wants to kill you. Andrea
I, I had a client in, in Singapore that was in a situation that, you know, and there she was an expat, and, she had called her parents back home and told them what was going on. And they told her because of the country that she was from that she's better off to stay in her situation than for her to move home. And she'd come to get her hair done and tell me stories, and I didn't even know what to say. Through. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not equipped for that. You know? And it's just and just to hear just women being trapped, you know, it's it's I I have no words. It's really frustrating and upsetting. Yeah. Jenny
And and that's one of the things I learned in university because when I went to Carleton, I was a residence fellow, which meant you you were, you were trained in having in helping people to a point. You know? Mhmm. And then you had to learn where the point was where you had to refer them to somebody who was a professional psychologist or whatever. So that was great training Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
For the rest of my life. You know? Anyway Andrea
Yeah. Anyway, and what and what's, like, what's rotary? Because I I always get confused about what rotary is. Jenny
It's a service club. It was started in nineteen o five by a guy named Paul Harris who was a new young lawyer in Chicago, and he didn't know anybody. And he thought, well, I'd like to meet other people. And, so he invited people that also I believe these guys were all in there in the building he had his office in, and there was an architect and and another I don't have another lawyer. But, anyways, people in different field. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Accountants and stuff like that. So, he started this group of, people. And after a few years, they decided they should be doing things to help other people. They their the motto is service above self. And then they have a what they call a four way test in Rotary. And that is, is it the truth? Is it fair to all concerned? Will it build goodwill and better friendship? And will it be beneficial to all concerned? So Rotary has these, you know, they're interested in integrity and in fairness and all that kind of stuff, which is, you know, quite laudable. Mhmm. And so the organization went on until the nineteen eighties That's right. With only men. They started at an it's Rotary International, so it's in over two thousand countries. Mhmm. That's not right. Sorry. It's two thousand clubs in I think it's well over I can't remember the exact number of clubs, but it's in the hundreds. Right. And there's one point two million roughly members Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Around the world. So in the nineteen eighties, they saw there were some people in California, women that wanted to join, and their these clubs said, sure. You're, you know, an entrepreneur in your community. You make money. You do good things for people. We'd like to have you in a club. And then other people said, you can't have women. They're gonna mess it up. You know? Andrea
Yeah. God. They they belong in the kitchen. Yeah. They can make our snacks. Jenny
But then they took it to the Supreme Court in the US, and they said, you can't discriminate like that anymore. So the rule was then changed. It was the fall, I think, of eighty nine. Right. And so that's when I was asked to join the, Oakville or Fulger Rotary Club. That's right. Andrea
And I Jenny
asked them how many people they would, lose if I joined, and they said five. I said, why would you trade five for one? And they said, well, it's time. And I said, why did you pick me? And they said they said, we think you can put up with the crap. So it's because I had been the first woman on this and first woman on that. And I know that I break up the the poker night and broke up the fishing trip and all that kind of stuff if Yeah. Unless they decided to exclude me, which the people who were in charge of those things said was not appropriate. So Right. Andrea
I Jenny
mean, I don't care if you go fishing. It's no spin off my you know? Andrea
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jenny
Yeah. On the other hand, it is a bonding experience. Right? It's like why people have all these other meetings to to try on in it. So, anyhow, I I said, well, I'm tired of being the first and the only. Please find somebody else, and I'll join with her. So that's it. Andrea
Yeah. That's great. Jenny
And then so we we both joined So Andrea
they lose two or ten members then? Jenny
No. Actually, in fact, they only lost three. We were really cheeky, Gabe, McDermott, and I. We we, we used to order them we ordered champagne on the anniversary of our, like, of our first year. Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
And we said we wanted to congratulate them on their foresight. So, I mean, they they, of course, then started asking more women to join and and, the Andrea
And then they just got better. Jenny
Well, yeah. But more people with good ideas, and it's in so many communities like the I'm in a small town now of I mean, it's part of there's two communities in in in Soggy Shores, and Southampton's one of them. But and there's three clubs now. So there's about ninety people who are doing good work. But, you know, we help build playgrounds in the school. We help put an MRI machine in the hospital. We help with the emergency department. We help with trail management, you know, like, for tourism and trails and stuff, and all sorts of things. And and we also that's one thing that sets Rotary apart is you do stuff internationally. So Right. Rotary is the only organ non nongovernmental organization that has a seat at the UN. Andrea
I didn't know that. Yeah. The last time I was in Singapore, when was Jeff and I there? Was that last year or the year before now? I forget. But, The Jenny
international conference was there. Andrea
Yeah. We were it was which is so funny, like, seeing all these people where they had, like, their did they have T shirts on or they had, like, labels? And I remember getting into one of the, elevators, and I was like, oh, it was I'm like such a child. Right? I and I'm like, oh, my aunt Jenny is is part of Rotary. Do you know her? Jenny Amy? I literally fully said that, and they're like, no. There's a lot of us around. I'm like, okay. Jenny
Yeah. I went to the the hundredth anniversary in, two thousand and five in Chicago with a friend, and I'm addicted to coffee. So I got up the elevator, and there were only three people at the Starbucks, and I thought. So I ran over. I got myself a coffee. And as I'm walking back, there's a short man walking along, black guy with a full, like, garb from his country. Yep. It's a lot about several other people. And my daughter had gone on one of these polio plus plus trips that Rotary ran, to help get people, feeling comfortable about bringing their children to be immunized. Right. So she had gone to Togo and Burkina Faso. And she said, oh, mom. Maybe you'll see this guy. And and I thought I said, Jody, there's gonna be forty five thousand people at that meeting. There's no way I am gonna see this guy. I mean, that's the size of what? Milton? Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Yeah. At the time. Anyway, so I'm walking back with my coffee, and this guy is walking to Marmee. He's from Africa. He's got this badge on, and it has four letters. And his name is four letters. So I look and I say, Gawa? And he said, yes. Then I said, So, anyways, he was the guy that had led the team from Yeah. Yeah. Togo and Burkina Faso where she had helped with thirty other people to encourage people to get their children immunized. Just, like, the chances of that happening. Andrea
One in forty five thousand. Jenny
Yeah. Andrea
What what are the ages for people to join in Rotary? Jenny
Usually, you have to be over thirty. Andrea
Okay. Jenny
In in the old days, it was forty. Andrea
Right. Jenny
And then and then in in every single club, you were supposed to have, like, one librarian, one lawyer, one accountant, one engineer, one so that it was a the idea of the rotary was all at all different fields of endeavor are are, joined together. And so you use all the different skill sets that are there to make things happen for good in the world. One of the guys in my club, who has been a district governor, and he he he coined I think he coined this term, but I'm not sure. He calls it do goodery. Andrea
Well, I like that do goodery. Jenny
Me too. I really think Tony did a stellar job there. Yeah. Andrea
And so so I guess you were the librarian in your rotary then? Jenny
Yep. Andrea
Yeah. They should have hairstylists in the rotary. Jenny
Well That's important. Why not? Andrea
Everybody needs to look good. Right? Jenny
Everybody needs to wait look the way they wanna look. Andrea
Yeah. What changes in society have surprised you the most during your lifetime? Jenny
That's a hard question. I mean, I think when you look back, you can see the evolution of a lot of stuff. Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
And, I remember I mean, the Internet is huge. Right? And and it's made us so much more interconnected and so much more disconnected in the same time. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And that's why I think it's a really a really fascinating thing. I'm I am quite concerned about AI. Andrea
Yeah. A lot of people are. Jenny
Noam Chomsky calls, AI, plagiarism software. Andrea
Yeah. It's scary too just, like, not only with all the deep fakes that's better out there and with, like, video, and I guess some audio as well, but it's just the fact that it's gonna take over so many jobs. And then it and then it's like Who's Jenny
letting who's letting this happen? And, I mean, somebody else was saying to me that that they they said that, AI can take huge amounts of data and distill it down very quickly to identify trends and stuff like that. Andrea
Mhmm. Jenny
And I I mean, so that's a very good thing. If if you're looking at medical issues and, I don't know, mechanical issues, I don't know what all else that might be. Yeah. But so that's great. You know? But the other point is they're getting all this stuff off the Internet, and there's a lot of misinformation on the Internet. Andrea
So much misinformation. Jenny
And and I used I when I taught at Sheridan College, one of the courses, I taught in the library library technician program, but I also taught a few general education. Like, I did history. I did entrepreneurship, and I did another one called caught in the web. And this was in the nineties, sort of mid nineties. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And I used to tell the class, Jenny Amy could put up a whole website on cancer and what what are the most effective treatments, how you can identify cancer. Jenny Amy is a librarian. She has no medical background except she took a first aid course once. You have no idea who put what up there. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And whether they had any background at all and they're not edited. There's no book publisher that's or publisher that's gonna get sued for, you know, misinformation or libel or whatever it is. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
It's just there, and it means zero. And maybe that's my bias because I'm a librarian. But Andrea
Yeah. But I I also think too, like, this is why I have such a problem with, influencers when it comes to my industry because there's so many people that are on there that are touting, like, the like, skin care, makeup, like, hair products, and and they don't they don't know what they're talking about. And, sure, it might look good on them. And I know that's super shallow. You know? Like, that that Well, Jenny
I don't know. That just, like, bullshit babbles brains no matter what you're talking about. Andrea
So, like, one of one of the things that they say I is also good for is, like, in the in the legal realm. Right? It can go through. It can it can, like, read documents. It can prepare things. But these are all things that, like, junior lawyers would be doing. And I Jenny
already make stuff up. They've had at least one case that I am I'm aware of where AI made it up. So the so the defense team went back to look for where this case is, and it's not a case. It never ever was. Andrea
Where it's beneficial is that it'll it'll kind of do some of the basic research and Jenny
Well, great gobs of data, and it can Yeah. Distill it and find it fast. Andrea
But you're to my understanding is you're not supposed to, in the legal realm, like, just present what you got from AI, but it it kind of cuts off, like, a big portion of time and whatever. But then the other thing that that it's like, well, in order to become that you know, for using lawyers as an example, to become that kind of superior kind of, like, lawyer that knows what they're doing, you need to understand working through all that nitty gritty and the research and, like, you need to, like, pay your dues. Right? And Yeah. And it's like, if you don't have an opportunity to pay your dues, then what are we doing to that industry? Right? And that, of course, then that works with, like, any industry. Right? How have you seen the role of women involved over the years, over the decades, I guess? Jenny
Yeah. Well, I mean, there's certainly more women involved involved in business and in every profession. Mhmm. The skilled trades is still a a slow area. Andrea
I was just gonna say too. I mean, it is, unfortunately, still a very sexist, like, industry. Right? And and one of my guests that I had recently is an interior designer, and and she talked a bit about that, about, you know, just wanting to work with, like, strong women and surround herself with, like, more strong women. And and that, yes, it's a slow climb, but there are people that are in the trades. But, yeah, it's still you know, they don't Yeah. Jenny
It's not I mean, I know people who have hired women to do that kind of stuff because because their daughter wanted to do it or something like that. You know? But they're just as confident as as anybody else. It's just it's not friendly right at the moment, but, you know, banking wasn't friendly. Libraries weren't friendly. Nobody was you know, like, you stayed home and took care of the kidlets. And then we we dropped you off the end of the pier if we got tired of you. Things change slowly as much as we like to think that it's a fast paced universe. It's not you know, what is it? The the hurry rock, I behind her, I get. Mhmm. Andrea
Hopefully, you know, just things that upset women back, you know, like, with the abortions and Jenny
Yeah. Some of the meetings we used to have with the crisis center or at Sheridan College with all the women getting together. You know? And, I remember one meeting, there were a lot of men involved, and they were it was a woman's issue, like rape or, like, foul abuse Yeah. Tend to be considered a woman's issue when, really, the perpetrators should it should be an issue that addresses what's going on with the perpetrator, not with the victim. But I've just been reading Mel Robbins' book, the Let Them theory. Andrea
Okay. I don't know that. Jenny
So and she's fascinating. But, and it's the it it's if people wanna feel something, let them do it. Like, you can't change stuff. Yeah. You can't change other people. The only thing you can change is yourself. If they feel that they can't work with the woman, then let them not work with the woman. Yeah. But and so that's why I think there's companies that start up that are just women. Yeah. Hey. You don't wanna work, but that's fine. But we're good engineers. We're good librarians. We're good at medical. We're good at whatever you know, building birdhouses or whatever. So let them do what they want, but then let you do what you need to do. Andrea
I feel I feel like, and maybe it's just, like, things I've gone through growing up and and and even, like, as an adult, whatever. Like, I feel that that now I really prefer to work on projects where it's very female centric. You know, it it's not that there aren't great guys to work with, but I I feel like I'm happier now when I get on a job and it's all women. Jenny
Somebody asked me one time, this is a journalist, about joining Rotary. And she said, why would you do that? Like, you're you're you're quite the feminist. And I said, it's easier to talk to people about issues if you're not standing at their door spitting at them. If you go in and say, let's talk about this. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Like, what's so awful about me that you don't think I should be playing in your backyard? Like, what what is this? And why is that your backyard? I don't really get it. It's I think the more people involved in discussions, It's better? Andrea
Yeah. For sure. I definitely have been in conversations with people where it's not really a conversation. Jenny
It's called a lecture, I think. Andrea
I really love that we finally got to, to do this, and I really love just everything that you've done and just the influence that you have on me and, hopefully, other people when they they hear some of the things that you have done. And we're at a crucial point where there are things that are kind of, you know, maybe going back in time for women, and I definitely don't wanna see that happen. Yeah. And just I think that it we definitely need to make sure that we stand up and and support. Yeah. Jenny
And I mean I mean, every not everybody can do that. And I guess my one of my things I always say to people is you you have to own what you are and who you are. Like, if that's not your gig and if you can't if you feel really uncomfortable doing stuff like that, then then just support the people whose whose opinions you you appreciate. You decide what kind of day you're gonna have. So you decide how you're gonna react. Somebody says f you. Yeah. Or somebody says, like, so I got all involved in streetscaping up here. We have curb extensions. There's some people here who don't like them, and they they see my name in in their head whenever they see that, and they hate it. So they phone me every once in a while saying, Jenny, blah blah blah. And I say, thanks for letting me know what you think. Andrea
There you go. That's all that's needs to be done. Jenny
I mean, it's there. You know? Yeah. And and that's the way it is. Andrea
I like it. It's simple. Jenny
It's simple. I guess the other thing that I try and remember, because I took some when I worked with the rape rape crisis center, they did some training on bias. And you don't realize it until you get it thrown in your face, but we all, every single one of us, has some kind of unconscious bias. How are you viewing those? What's your unconscious bias? Andrea
Right. Jenny
You see a woman walk in the room of seventeen carpenters? What? And she says she's a carpenter. What's your unconscious bias? Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
And and so if you ask yourself that no matter what situation you're in, it it really it stops you for a minute. You think, why do I think that? Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Working with other people to achieve your goals is always, in my opinion, the best way. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Everybody's got opinions, and they probably have some good and valid reasons for those opinions. Andrea
Yeah. Jenny
Okay. I'm done. Andrea
Okay. And see. Thanks for tuning in to the fuck you fifties. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow and rate the podcast. And we'd love to connect with you on Instagram, so be sure to follow us at the fuck you fifties. The fuck you fifties is hosted by Andrea Clare and edited and produced by Bespoke Productions Hub. See you next time. 
